走过黑暗 Through the darkness
我们开拓前行， of the pathways that we marched,
邪恶和正义共存。 evil and good lived side by side.
这就是生活的...本质 And this is the nature of... Of life.
我们正处在一个不平衡时期 We are in an unbalanced
就是，和民主国家之间不对等的对抗 and inequivalent confrontation between democracies
民主国家有义务遵守游戏规则 who are obliged to play by the rules
其它国家，却认为民主是一个笑话。 and entities who think democracy is a joke.
你无法说服狂热分子 You can't convince fanatics
对他们说，“哎，仇恨会使你麻痹， by saying, "hey, hatred paralyzes you,
真爱能让你释怀。” love releases you."
我们必须遵守不同的规则。 There are different rules that we have to play by.
女新闻播报员：今天，两名伊朗高级核科学家 Female newsreader: Today, two of Iran's top nuclear scientists
被一伙人作为攻击目标。 were targeted by hit squads.
女新闻播报员2：...地点在首都德黑兰 Female newsreader 2: ...In the capital Tehran.
男新闻广播员：...在一系列的最新攻击中 Male newsreader: ...The latest in a string of attacks.
女新闻报道员3：今日发动的攻击的所有特征 Female newsreader 3: Today's attack has all the hallmarks
重大战略破坏。 of major strategic sabotage.
女新闻广播员4：伊朗立即谴责 Female newsreader 4: Iran immediately accused
美国和以色列 the U.S. and Israel
试图破坏其核计划。 of trying to damage its nuclear program.
内贾德： Mahmoud ahmadinejad:
我想断然否认任何美国参与 I want to categorically deny any United States involvement
在伊朗境内的任何暴力行为。 in any kind of act of violence inside Iran.
只能使行动隐蔽才行， Covert actions can help,
能有帮助。 can assist.
需要他们，但他们不是所有的时间都至关重要， They are needed, they are not all the time essential,
他们，没办法，去取代政治智慧。 and they, in no way, can replace political wisdom.
亚历克斯·吉布尼：在伊朗进行的暗杀 Alex gibney: Were the assassinations in Iran
与Stuxnet的计算机攻击有关吗？ related to the stuxnet computer attacks?
呃，下一个问题，请。 Uh, next question, please.
男新闻广播员：伊朗的基础设施 Male newsreader: Iran's infrastructure
被定位 is being targeted
是由一个新的危险和强大的网络蠕虫。 by a new and dangerously powerful cyber worm.
所谓Stuxnet蠕虫病毒是专门设计的， The so-called stuxnet worm is specifically designed,
看来，由它进行渗透和破坏 it seems, to infiltrate and sabotage
现实生活中的发电厂，工厂和炼油厂。 real-world power plants and factories and refineries.
男新闻广播员2：它并不会去窃取你的信息 Male newsreader 2: It's not trying to steal information
或对你进行信用卡诈骗 or grab your credit card,
真正的目的是，试图进入某种工业厂房 they're trying to get into some sort of industrial plant
和肆虐试图炸毁发动机或... and wreak havoc trying to blow up an engine or...
男新闻广播员3： Male newsreader 3:
男新闻广播员4：没有人知道 Male newsreader 4: No one knows
谁是蠕虫背后的指使者 who's behind the worm
其使命的确切性质是什么， and the exact nature of its mission,
但伊朗有些担心以色列 but there are fears Iran will hold Israel
或者美国对此负责，并寻求报复。 or America responsible and seek retaliation.
男新闻广播员5：这不是不可能 Male newsreader 5: It's not impossible that
一些黑客组织做到了， some group of hackers did it,
但安全专家正在研究这个 but the security experts that are studying this
真的认为这需要一个国家的资源来做此事吗？ really think this required the resource of a nation-state.
男子：好吧，动起来。 Man: Okay, and spinning.
吉布尼：好了，好了。开始了。 Gibney: Okay, good. Here we go.
Stuxnet蠕虫攻击事件产生什么样的最坏影响？ What impact, ultimately, did the stuxnet attack have?
你说说看？ Can you say?
我不想谈细节。 I don't want to get into the details.
吉布尼：由于该事件已经发生， Gibney: Since the event has already happened,
我们为什么不能对Stuxnet病毒进行公开而坦率地谈论呢？ why can't we talk more openly and publicly about stuxnet?
是的，我的意思是，我的回答是，因为它是密级的。 Yeah, I mean, my answer is because it's classified.
我...我不知道...你知道，明知 I... I won't knowledge... You know, knowingly
提供任何东西，我认为是密级的。 offer up anything i consider classified.
吉布尼：我知道你不能谈论太多关于Stuxnet病毒， Gibney: I know that you can't talk much about stuxnet,
因为Stuxnet被正式作为密级的。 because stuxnet is officially classified.
你这两项是正确的。 You're right on both those counts.
吉布尼：但一直以来 Gibney: But there has been
很多的媒体报道这件事。 a lot reported about it in the press.
我不想对此发表评论。 I don't want to comment on this.
我在报纸上读到它，媒体，象你这样的， I read it in the newspaper, the media, like you,
但我无法对它进行阐述。 but I'm unable to elaborate upon it.
人们可能会感到沮丧 People might find it frustrating
在公共场所，不能谈论它 not to be able to talk about it when it's in the public domain,
但... but...
吉布尼：我觉得很沮丧。 Gibney: I find it frustrating.
是的，我相信你会这样。 Yeah, I'm sure you do.
我不回答这个问题。 I don't answer that question.
不幸的是，我不能对此评论。 Unfortunately, i can't comment.
我不知道该如何回答这个问题。 I do not know how to answer that.
两个答案，你甚至开始之前，我不知道， Two answers before you even get started, I don't know,
如果我这样做，我们不会谈论它呢。 and if I did, we wouldn't talk about it anyway.
吉布尼：如果所有的事均是秘密，你怎么会去争辩呢？ Gibney: How can you have a debate if everything's secret?
我觉得现在我们现在就在这里。 I think right now that's just where we are.
没有人愿意... No one wants to...
国家都不高兴承认 Countries aren't happy about confessing
或拥有多达他们做了什么，因为他们都搞不清 or owning up to what they did because they're not quite sure
他们让系统去那。 where they want the system to go.
Stuxnet背后的指使是谁？ And so whoever was behind stuxnet
没有承认，他们在幕后指使。 hasn't admitted they were behind it.
吉布尼：向有关官员询问Stuxnet病毒 Gibney: Asking officials about stuxnet
是令人沮丧和超现实的， was frustrating and surreal,
就像问他，皇帝的新衣一样。 like asking the emperor about his new clothes.
即使在网络武器已渗透到电脑中后 Even after the cyber weapon had penetrated computers
世界各地， all over the world,
没有人愿意承认这是松懈造成的 no one was willing to admit it was loose
或谈论它造成的危险有多大。 or talk about the dangers it posed.
刚才谈了Stuxnet的运作 What was it about the stuxnet operation
这是隐藏在众目睽睽下的吗？ that was hiding in plain sight?
也许有办法让计算机代码 Maybe there was a way the computer code
自己讲出来。. could speak for itself.
Stuxnet在白俄罗斯第一浮出水面。 Stuxnet first surfaced in Belarus.
我开始给发现它的人打了一个电话 I started with a call to the man who discovered it
此时，他在伊朗的客户开始恐慌了 when his clients in Iran began to panic
电脑死机象瘟疫一样流行。 over an epidemic of computer shutdowns.
你以前见过比这更复杂的事吗？ Had you ever seen anything quite so sophisticated before?
埃里克鸿渐：在日常基础上，基本上 Eric chien: On a daily basis, basically
我们通过筛选 we are sifting through
在一个巨大草垛中寻找一个确实存在的针。 a massive haystack looking for that proverbial needle.
我们得到数以百万计的新的恶意威胁事件 We get millions of pieces of new malicious threats
和成千上万正在进行的攻击报告 and there are millions of attacks going on
当然是一天之内。 every single day.
试图保护人们 And only way are trying to protect people
和他们的计算机和...和他们的系统 and their computers and... And their systems
和国家基础设施 and countries' infrastructure
不被这些攻击。 from being taken down by those attacks.
但更重要的是，我们必须找到重要的攻击。 But more importantly, we have to find the attacks that matter.
当你谈论很多， When you're talking about that many,
影响是非常重要的。 impact is extremely important.
尤金·卡巴斯基：二十年前，杀毒公司， Eugene kaspersky: Twenty years ago, the antivirus companies,
他们正在追捕计算机病毒 they were hunting for computer viruses
因为没有那么多。 because there were not so many.
于是我们一样，几十几十的一个月， So we had, like, tens of dozens a month,
而且只是小数字。 and there was just little numbers.
现在，我们每月收集数百万种独特的攻击。 Now, we collect millions of unique attacks every month.
维塔利kamluk：这个房间我们所说的啄木鸟的房间 Vitaly kamluk: This room we call a woodpecker's room
或病毒实验室 or a virus lab,
而这正是病毒分析师坐的位子。 and this is where virus analysts sit.
我们称他们为啄木鸟，因为他们 We call them woodpeckers because they are
啄虫子，网络蠕虫和病毒。 pecking the worms, network worms, and viruses.
和我们看到一样，三个不同的黑客群体 And we see, like, three different groups of hackers
是网络攻击的幕后指使。 behind cyber-attacks.
他们是传统的网络犯罪分子。 They are traditional cyber criminals.
那些家伙感兴趣的只是非法牟利。 Those guys are interested only in illegal profit.
快速和肮脏的金钱。 And quick and dirty money.
活动家，还是黑客行动主义者， Activists, or hacktivists,
他们是为了好玩的黑客或黑客指使的 they are hacking for fun or hacking to push
一些政治信息。 some political message.
第三组是民族国家。 And the third group is nation-states.
他们感兴趣的是高品质的智能 They're interested in high-quality intelligence
或破坏活动。 or sabotage activity.
简：安全公司不仅分享信息 Chien: Security companies not only share information
但是我们也有着二进制样品。 but we also share binary samples.
所以，当这种威胁被发现 So when this threat was found
由白俄罗斯安全公司 by a Belarusian security company
对他们的客户在伊朗的一台机器， on one of their customer's machines in Iran,
数据样品在安全领域之间进行共享。 the sample was shared amongst the security community.
当我们试图命名这些威胁时，我们只是进行一些挑选 When we try to name threats, we just try to pick
某种字符串，某种单词， some sort of string, some sort of words,
在二进制代码的内部。 that are inside of the binary.
在这种情况下，那里有几个单词 In this case, there was a couple of words in there
和我们采集的每一个片段，而形成Stuxnet。 and we took pieces of each, and that formed stuxnet.
从我的一个工程师，得到了关于Stuxnet的消息。 I got the news about stuxnet from one of my engineers.
他来到我的办公室，推开门， He came to my office, opened the door,
他说，“因此，尤金，你当然知道， and he said, "so, Eugene, of course you know that
我们正在等待着什么非常糟糕的事要发生。 we are waiting for something really bad.
它确实发生了” It happened."
吉布尼：给我的是什么样子某种意义上 Gibney: Give me some sense of what it was like
当时在实验室 in the lab at that time.
是否有惊奇的明显的感觉 Was there a palpable sense of amazement
有一些真正不同呢？ that you had something really different there?
好吧，我不会称它为惊奇 Well, I wouldn't call it amazement.
这是一种震惊 It was a kind of a shock.
这超出了我们最担心的事情，我们的最坏的恶梦， It went beyond our worst fears, our worst nightmares,
越分析越持续这种感觉 and this continued the more we analyzed.
我们越研究， The more we researched,
整个故事会更离奇 the more bizarre the whole story got.
我们每天看这么多的恶意软件 We look at so much malware every day that
我们可以说，我们只要看一下代码，通俗易懂， we can just look at the code and straightaway we can say,
“好吧，在这里会有什么不好， "okay, there's something bad going on here,
我需要调查的。” and I need to investigate that."
这就是它的方式 And that's the way it was
当我们第一次看Stuxnet病毒时。 when we looked at stuxnet for the first time.
我们把它打开，不好的事情比比皆是。 We opened it up and there was just bad things everywhere.
只是象，好，这是不好的，这是不好的， Just like, okay, this is bad and that's bad,
你知道，我们需要进行调查。 and, you know, we need to investigate this.
而只是突然我们有一样， And just suddenly we had, like,
直面一个百问题。 a hundred questions straightaway.
我们做的最有趣的事情就是侦探工作 The most interesting thing that we do is detective work
在这里我们试图追查是谁在背后施加威胁， where we try to track down who's behind a threat,
他们在做什么，他们的动机是什么， what are they doing, what's their motivation,
并尝试完全从根本上停止它。 and try to really stop it at the root.
和它是一种耗时事情。 And it is kind of all-consuming.
你得到这个新的谜题 You get this new puzzle
将其抑制这是非常困难的， and it's very difficult to put it down,
要知道，一直工作到，像凌晨4：00 you know, work until, like, 4:00 am in the morning
并计算这些东西。 and figure these things out.
我在这个地区，我非常乐此不疲， And I was in that zone where I was very consumed by this,
非常兴奋，非常有兴趣知道 very excited about it, very interested to know
发生了什么事。 what was happening.
和埃里克也是在同一类区域。 And Eric was also in that same sort of zone.
于是我们两个人一样，来回消磨时间。 So the two of us were, like, back and forth all the time.
简：利亚姆，我继续耗在代码里， Chien: Liam and I continued to grind at the code,
共享件，交换意见， sharing pieces, comparing notes,
互相返馈自己的想法。 bouncing ideas off of each other.
我们意识到，我们需要做 We realized that we needed to do
此谓深入的分析，排除威胁， what we called deep analysis, pick apart the threat,
每一个字节，每个“0”，每个“1”， every single byte, every single zero, one,
理解它里面的一切。 and understand everything that was inside of it.
而只是为了给你一些上下文关系， And just to give you some context,
我们可以通过和理解每一行代码 we can go through and understand every line of code
分钟的平均的威胁。 for the average threat in minutes.
在这里，我们在一个月到这种威胁 And here we are one month into this threat
我们刚刚开始去发现我们所谓的 and we were just starting to discover what we call
有效载荷或其全部目的。 the payload or its whole purpose.
当看Stuxnet的编码， When looking at the stuxnet code,
这是平均的代码块的大小为20次 it's 20 times the size of the average piece of code
但在它的内部几乎没有任何错误。 but contains almost no bugs inside of it.
这是极为罕见的。 And that's extremely rare.
恶意代码总是有它内部的错误。 Malicious code always has bugs inside of it.
Stuxnet蠕虫的情况就不是这样的。 This wasn't the case with stuxnet.
它很密集，每一段代码做一些事情 It's dense and every piece of code does something
和做准确的事情，以开展攻击。 and does something right in order to conduct its attack.
一个使我们惊讶的事 One of the things that surprised us
是Stuxnet蠕虫利用所谓 was that stuxnet utilized what's called
零日漏洞，或基本上是， a zero-day exploit, or basically,
一段代码，允许其传播 a piece of code that allows it to spread
无需你做任何事情。 without you having to do anything.
你没有，例如，下载文件并运行它。 You don't have to, for example, download a file and run it.
零日漏洞是一个利用这一点 A zero-day exploit is an exploit that
没有人知道，除了攻击者。 nobody knows about except the attacker.
因此，针对它没有防护。 So there's no protection against it.
还有就是，没有发布补丁。 There's been no patch released.
就是针对零天的保护， There's been zero days protection,
你知道的，反对它。 you know, against it.
这就是袭击者的价值， That's what attackers value,
因为他们百分之百知道 because they know 100 percent
如果他们有这种零日漏洞， if they have this zero-day exploit,
他们可以在任何地方，可以得到他们希望得到的。 they can get in wherever they want.
他们实际上是非常有价值的。 They're actually very valuable.
您可以在地下出售这些代码 You can sell these on the underground
为的是几十万美元。 for hundreds of thousands of dollars.
简：然后我们变得更加担心 Chien: Then we became more worried
因为，我们立即会发现了更多的零天病毒。 because immediately we discovered more zero days.
再次，这些零天病毒极为罕见。 And again, these zero days are extremely rare.
在Stuxnet里面，我们有，你知道，四个零天病毒 Inside stuxnet we had, you know, four zero days,
在全年的其它时间， and for the entire rest of the year,
我们只看到了12个零天病毒被使用。 we only saw 12 zero days used.
它打击一切...浮出水面的一切。 It blows all... everything else out of the water.
我们从来没有见过这个。 We've never seen this before.
其实，我们从来没有见过，因为它，无论是。 Actually, we've never seen it since, either.
看一下恶意软件，你可以理解 Seeing one in a malware you could understand
因为，你知道，恶意软件作者都赚钱， because, you know, the malware authors are making money,
他们是偷别人的信用卡去赚钱， they're stealing people's credit cards and making money,
所以它是值得的使用它， so it's worth their while to use it,
但看到4个零天病毒，可能价值 but seeing four zero days, could be worth
50万美元， half a million dollars right there,
使用这个恶意软件 used in one piece of malware,
不是一般的犯罪团伙能这样做的。 this is not your ordinary criminal gangs doing this.
这是...这是更大的组织。 This is... This is someone bigger.
这绝对不是传统的犯罪， It's definitely not traditional crime,
不是黑客行动主义者，还有谁呢？ not hacktivists. Who else?
很明显，在一个非常早期的阶段 It was evident on a very early stage
就显示其复杂性 that just given the sophistication
这个恶意软件... of this malware...
建议，有一定有 Suggested that there must have been
一个国家参与其中， a nation-state involved,
至少一个国家参与开发。 at least one nation-state involved in the development.
当我们看这是弄来的代码 When we look at code that's coming from
这似乎是一个国家级的攻击 what appears to be a state attacker
或国家支持的攻击，通常他们事后擦洗得很干净。 or state-sponsored attacker, usually they're scrubbed clean.
他们不...他们背后不留下一点点蛛丝马迹。 They don't... they don't leave little bits behind.
他们不留下一点点的。 They don't leave little hints behind.
但在Stuxnet病毒里，实际上 But in stuxnet there were actually
一些痕迹出现了。 a few hints left behind.
之一是，为了得到低级别的访问 One was that, in order to get low-level access
到Microsoft Windows，. to Microsoft windows,
Stuxnet蠕虫需要使用数字证书， stuxnet needed to use a digital certificate,
这证明，这段代码 which certifies that this piece of code
来自一个特定的公司。 came from a particular company.
现在，这些攻击者显然无法去微软 Now, those attackers obviously couldn't go to Microsoft
说：“哎，为我们测试这些代码 and say, "hey, test our code out for us.
给我们一个数字证书。” And give us a digital certificate."
所以他们基本上是偷了他们的证书... So they essentially stole them...
从两家在台湾的公司。 From two companies in Taiwan.
而这两家公司没有任何相互关系 And these two companies have nothing to do with each other
除了他们地理位置接近 except for their close proximity
在完全相同的创业园。 in the exact same business park.
数字证书守卫非常，非常严 Digital certificates are guarded very, very closely
在很多门的后面 behind multiple doors
他们需要多人才能解锁。 and they require multiple people to unlock.
安全：...面对摄相头 Security: ...To the camera.
简：他们需要同时提供生物识别 Chien: And they need to provide both biometrics
而且，还有，通过短语。 - and, as well, pass phrases.
这不像这些证书都是 It wasn't like those certificates were
只是坐在连接到互联网的一些机器上。 just sitting on some machine connected to the Internet.
有些人的活动都必须参与其中，间谍。. Some human assets had to be involved, spies.
O'murchu：就象晚上行动的一个清洁工 O'murchu: Like a cleaner who comes in at night
偷了这些证书 and has stolen these certificates
从这两家公司偷走的。 from these companies.
它确实感觉像电影场景 It did feel like walking onto the set
詹姆士·邦德演的电影，你... of this James Bond movie and you...
你已经卷入了这件事， You've been embroiled in this thing that,
你知道，你...你没想到。 you know, you... You never expected.
我们继续搜索， We continued to search,
我们继续在代码中搜索， and we continued to search in code,
最终我们发现留下了一些其他的面包屑 and eventually we found some other bread crumbs left
我们能够顺藤摸瓜。 we were able to follow.
它与西门子做生意， It was doing something with Siemens,
西门子软件，也可能是西门子硬件。 Siemens software, possibly Siemens hardware.
我们从来没有见过，在任何恶意软件之前， We'd never ever seen that in any malware before,
把西门子作目标。 something targeting Siemens.
我们甚至不知道自己为什么会那么做。 We didn't even know why they would be doing that.
但谷歌搜索后，很快我们了解 But after googling, very quickly we understood
它是针对西门子PLC（可编程逻辑控制器）。. it was targeting Siemens plcs.
Stuxnet的目标是一个非常特殊的硬件设备， Stuxnet was targeting a very specific hardware device,
一种叫做PLC或可编程逻辑控制器。 something called a plc or a programmable logic controller.
兰纳： PLC的是一个很小的电脑 Langner: The plc is kind of a very small computer
连接到物理设备 attached to physical equipment,
如泵，阀门一样，像电机。 like pumps, like valves, like motors.
所以这个小盒子运行的是一个数字程序 So this little box is running a digital program
该软件的行为 and the actions of this program
可控制电动机的关闭或设置一个特定的速度。 turns that motor on, off, or sets a specific speed.
简：这些程序模块控制器 Chien: Those program module controllers
控制象电站，电网之类的东西 control things like power plants, power grids.
O'murchu：这是用于工厂的， O'murchu: This is used in factories,
它在关键基础设施中。 it's used in critical infrastructure.
关键基础设施，它无处不在我们身边， Critical infrastructure, it's everywhere around us,
交通，电信， transportation, telecommunications,
金融服务，医疗保健。 financial services, health care.
所以Stuxnet蠕虫的有效载荷设计 So the payload of stuxnet was designed
攻击一些非常重要的部分 to attack some very important part
我们的世界里的。 of our world.
有效负载会是非常重要的。 The payload is gonna be important.
会发生什么情况有可能是非常危险的。 What happens there could be very dangerous.
兰纳：下一个非常大的惊喜来到 Langner: The next very big surprise came
当它感染了我们的实验室系统。 when it infected our lab system.
我们想通了，恶意软件正在调查 We figured out that the malware was probing
为控制器。 for controllers.
这是它精心挑选的目标。 It was quite picky on its targets.
它没有试图在网络中操作任何给定控制器 It didn't try to manipulate any given controller in a network
它会看到的。 that it would see.
它通过多次检查，当那些抽查不合格时， It went through several checks, and when those checks failed,
它不会实施攻击。 it would not implement the attack.
显然这是探测特定目标。 It was obviously probing for a specific target.
你得把这个背景下， You've got to put this in context that,
在当时，我们已经知道， at the time, we already knew,
好了，这是最复杂的恶意软件 well, this is the most sophisticated piece of malware
我们已经见过的。 that we have ever seen.
因此，它是那样的陌生。 So it's kind of strange.
有人说花费如此巨大的努力，要达到的具体的目标是什么呢？ Somebody takes that huge effort to hit one specific target?
好了，那一定是相当显著的目标。 Well, that must be quite a significant target.
简：因此，在Symantec赛门铁克，我们对网络进行刺探 Chien: So at symantec we have probes on networks
在世界各地 all over the world
观看恶意活动。. watching for malicious activity.
O'murchu：我们想真正看到了Stuxnet病毒感染的情形 O'murchu: We'd actually seen infections of stuxnet
遍布世界各地，在美国，澳大利亚， all over the world, in the U.S., Australia,
在英国，法国，德国，欧洲各地。 in the u.K., in France, Germany, all over Europe.
简：它传播到整个世界任何Windows机器 Chien: It spread to any windows machine in the entire world.
你知道，我们有这些组织 You know, we had these organizations
在美国负责 inside the United States who were in charge of
工业控制设备的人说， industrial control facilities saying,
“如果我们被感染。将会发生什么事情？”. "we're infected. What's gonna happen?"
O'murchu：我们不知道是否有一个即将到来的最后期限 O'murchu: We didn't know if there was a deadline coming up
些时这种威胁会引发 where this threat would trigger
突然会，关闭所有，你知道， and suddenly would, like, turn off all, you know,
世界各地的发电厂 electricity plants around the world
或将开始关闭其它什么东西 or it would start shutting things down
或启动一些攻击。 or launching some attack.
我们知道，Stuxnet病毒可能产生非常可怕的后果， We knew that stuxnet could have very dire consequences,
我们很担心 and we were very worried about
装的是什么载荷 what the payload contained
并有一个势在必行的速度 and there was an imperative speed
我们不得不加入赛跑，并尝试，你知道， that we had to race and try and, you know,
击毁这个定时炸弹。 beat this ticking bomb.
最终，我们能够将统计数据作少许精选 Eventually, we were able to refine the statistics a little
我们看到伊朗是头号候选人 and we saw that Iran was the number one
与世界上可能受感染的国家相比。 infected country in the world.
简：这立即使我们眉头紧锁 Chien: That immediately raised our eyebrows.
以前，我们从来没有见过一个威胁 We had never seen a threat before
主要是在伊朗。 where it was predominantly in Iran.
于是，我们就开始跟踪接下来发生了什么事情 And so we began to follow what was going on
在地缘政治世界， in the geopolitical world,
普通新闻里，发生了什么事。 what was happening in the general news.
而那个时候，实际上有多个爆炸 And at that time, there were actually multiple explosions
是进出伊朗的天然气管道。 of gas pipelines going in and out of Iran.
爆炸，原因不明。. Unexplained explosions.
O'murchu：当然，我们也注意到，在那时 O'murchu: And of course, we did notice that at the time
曾有核科学家被暗杀了。 there had been assassinations of nuclear scientists.
所以这是令人担忧。 So that was worrying.
我们知道，有一些不好的事情发生了。 We knew there was something bad happening.
吉布尼：你有没有担心自己？ Gibney: Did you get concerned for yourself?
我的意思是，你有没有开始启动寻找你的依靠 I mean, did you begin to start looking over your shoulder
不时地？ from time to time?
是的，绝对是提醒自己要当心 Yeah, definitely looking over my shoulder
和...并注意我电话里的谈话内容。 and... and being careful about what I spoke about on the phone.
我...我对我的谈话非常有信心... I was... pretty confident my conversations on my...
手机被人窃听。 On the phone were being listened to.
我们只半开玩笑 We were only half joking
那时我们会看着对方 when we would look at each other
告诉对方一些东西， and tell each other things like,
“你看，我不是自杀 "look, I'm not suicidal.
如果我在星期一出现，就死了，你知道，这不是我。” If I show up dead on Monday, you know, it wasn't me."
我们会一直发布有关Stuxnet蠕虫的信息 We'd been publishing information about stuxnet
全部通过那个夏天。 all through that summer.
然后11月份，工业控制系统 And then in November, the industrial control system
排序在荷兰的专家和我们联系... sort of expert in Holland contacted us...
他说，所有这些设备，这将是内部 And he said all of these devices that would be inside of
工业控制系统持有一个唯一的标识号 an industrial control system hold a unique identifier number
这确定了设备的品牌和型号。 that identified the make and model of that device.
而且我们确实有几个这些数字代码 And we actually had a couple of these numbers in the code
，我们不知道他们是什么。 that we didn't know what they were.
因此，我们意识到，也许他指的是 And so we realized maybe what he was referring to
是神奇数字，我们有。 was the magic numbers we had.
当我们搜寻这些神奇的数字，然后 And then when we searched for those magic numbers
在这种情况下， in that context,
我们看到，什么都得要连接 we saw that what had to be connected
到正在针对这个工业控制系统 to this industrial control system that was being targeted
是一种叫变频器 were something called frequency converters
从两个具体的生产厂家， from two specific manufacturers,
之一是在伊朗。 one of which was in Iran.
所以在这个时候，我们绝对知道 And so at this time, we absolutely knew
所对准的设施 that the facility that was being targeted
不得不在伊朗 had to be in Iran
不得不从伊朗制造商的制造的设备入手。 and had equipment made from iranian manufacturers.
当我们抬起头来看看这些变频器， When we looked up those frequency converters,
我们立即发现，他们实际上是 we immediately found out that they were actually
出口由核管理委员会控制。 export controlled by the nuclear regulatory commission.
这立即使我们 And that immediately lead us then
想到一些核设施。 to some nuclear facility.
吉布尼：这是比电脑被感染的故事更让人关注 Gibney: This was more than a computer story,
所以我离开了反病毒侦探 so I left the world of the antivirus detectives
并找到了记者，大卫·桑格 and sought out journalist, David sanger,
他专门从事陌生的交叉领域的工作 who specialized in the strange intersection
网络，核武器，间谍活动。 of cyber, nuclear weapons, and espionage.
桑格：代码的出现 Sanger: The emergence of the code
这样，使我开始戒备那个正在进行的攻击。 is what put me on alert that an attack was under way.
而且由于操作的隐蔽性， And because of the covert nature of the operation,
不仅是官方的政府发言人 not only were official government spokesmen
不谈论它，他们甚至不知道它。 unable to talk about it, they didn't even know about it.
最后，我越深挖进去， Eventually, the more I dug into it,
我开始寻找更多的人 the more I began to find individuals
这些人已参与了某些部分的工作 who had been involved in some piece of it
或曾目睹了某部分的工作。 or who had witnessed some piece of it.
这意味着与美国人谈话 And that meant talking to Americans,
与以色列人谈话，与欧洲人谈话 talking to Israelis, talking to Europeans,
因为这明显是第一个，最大的， because this was obviously the first, biggest,
一个国家最复杂的例子 and most sophisticated example of a state
或两个国家，使用网络武器的例子 or two states using a cyber weapon
为的是进攻。 for offensive purposes.
我来到这里，带着历史的一点公平， I came to this with a fair bit of history,
了解伊朗核计划。 understanding the iranian nuclear program.
伊朗如何获得它的第一个核反应堆？ How did Iran get its first nuclear reactor?
我们给他们的...给了Shah， We gave it to them... Under the shah,
因为Shah被认为是美国的盟友。 because the shah was considered an American ally.
再次感谢你们的热情欢迎，总统先生。 Thank you again for your warm welcome, Mr. president.
加里萨莫尔：在尼克松政府期间， Gary samore: During the Nixon administration,
美国非常热烈支持. the U.S. was very enthusiastic about supporting
Shah的核电计划。 the shah's nuclear power program.
在一个点上，尼克松政府 And at one point, the Nixon administration
推动这个想法就是巴基斯坦和伊朗 was pushing the idea that Pakistan and Iran
应该在伊朗共同建立合资工厂。 should build a joint plant together in Iran.
有至少有一些证据表明， There's at least some evidence that
Shah想获取核武器， the shah was thinking about acquisition of nuclear weapons,
因为他看到了，我们在鼓励他看到伊朗 because he saw, and we were encouraging him to see Iran
波斯湾的所谓的警察。 as the so-called policemen of the persian Gulf.
而伊朗一直把自己看成 And the iranians have always viewed themselves
在中东的自然的主导力量。 as naturally the dominant power in the middle east.
萨莫尔：可是革命者， Samore: But the revolution,
在1979年推翻了Shah， which overthrew the shah in '79,
这真的削减了此方案 really curtailed the program
还没有来得及冒气开始。 before it ever got any head of steam going.
革命后，我们对伊朗政策的一部分 Part of our policy against Iran after the revolution
是拒绝他们搞核技术。 was to deny them nuclear technology.
所以大部分时间，当我参与 So most of the period when I was involved
在80年代和90年代 in the '80s and the '90s
美国在世界各地 was the U.S. running around the world
说服潜在的核供应商 and persuading potential nuclear suppliers
连和平利用的核技术也不要提供给伊朗。 not to provide even peaceful nuclear technology to Iran.
而我们忽略了秘密交易 And what we missed was the clandestine transfer
在80年代中期，从巴基斯坦到伊朗。 in the mid-1980s from Pakistan to Iran.
Rolf MOWATT - 拉森：卡迪尔汗 Rolf mowatt-larssen: Abdul qadeer Khan
就是我们称之为 is what we would call
巴基斯坦核计划之父。 the father of the Pakistan nuclear program.
他有充分授权和信任 He had the full authority and confidence
巴基斯坦政府从成立之初 of the Pakistan government from its inception
就生产核武器。 to the production of nuclear weapons.
我是一个中央情报局官员的第... I was a CIA officer for... For...
在过去的二十年中，作战官 For over two decades, operations officer,
大部分我的职业生涯在海外工作。 worked overseas most of my career.
该a.Q.Khan网络是如此的引人注目的 The a.Q. Khan network is so notable
因为除了建筑物 because aside from building
几十年来，巴基斯坦计划... the Pakistani program for decades...
它也是通过何种其他国家 It also was the means by which other countries
能够发展核武器， were able to develop nuclear weapons,
包括伊朗。 including Iran.
萨莫尔： A.Q.Khan代表 Samore: A.Q. Khan acting on behalf
巴基斯坦政府的利益 of the Pakistani government
与伊朗官员协商 negotiated with officials in Iran
再有一个技术转移进行 and then there was a transfer which took place
通过迪拜 through Dubai
用于核武器设计的蓝图 of blueprints for nuclear weapons design
以及一些硬件。 as well as some hardware.
在整个80年代中期， Throughout the mid-1980s,
伊朗计划资源不足。 the iranian program was not very well-resourced.
这是一个更大的研发计划。 It was more of an r & d program.
直到90年代中期，还不现实 It wasn't really until the mid-'90s
当他们作出的决定时，它开始起飞了 that it started to take off when they made the decision
建造核武器的计划。 to build the nuclear weapons program.
你知道，我们可以推测一下， You know, we can speculate what,
在他们心中，激励他们。 in their mind, motivated them.
我认为这是美国入侵伊拉克 I think it was the U.S. invasion of Iraq
科威特之后开始的。 after Kuwait.
你知道，有一个八年战争 You know, there was an eight-year war
就是在伊拉克和伊朗之间 between Iraq and Iran,
我们已经在数周之内消灭了萨达姆的军队。 we had wiped out Saddam's forces in a matter of weeks.
我认为这足以说服统治者 And I think that was enough to convince the rulers
在德黑兰，他们需要追求 in Tehran that they needed to pursue
核武器，这更严重。 nuclear weapons more seriously.
乔治·布什：像这样的国家以及他们的恐怖主义同盟国 George Bush: States like these and their terrorist allies
形成了一个邪恶的轴， constitute an axis of evil,
武装威胁世界和平。 arming to threaten the peace of the world.
萨莫尔：从2003年到2005 Samore: From 2003 to 2005
他们担心美国会入侵他们， when they feared that the U.S. would invade them,
他们接受针对自己的核计划限制。 they accepted limits on their nuclear program.
但到2006年，伊朗人得出的结论 But by 2006, the iranians had come to the conclusion
认为美国在阿富汗和伊拉克陷入困境 that the U.S. was bogged down in Afghanistan and Iraq
不再有威胁他们的能力， and no longer had the capacity to threaten them,
所以他们认为这是安全的，恢复其铀浓缩计划 and so they felt it was safe to resume their enrichment program
他们开始生产低浓缩铀 they started producing low enriched uranium,
生产更多的离心机，安装它们 producing more centrifuges, installing them
在纳坦兹大型地下铀浓缩设施。 at the large-scale underground enrichment facility at natanz.
记者： Journalist:
内贾德： Ahmadinejad:
吉布尼：你去过纳坦兹多少次？ Gibney: How many times have you been to natanz?
不是很多次，因为我前几年离开了，关于dia Not that many, because I left few years ago, the dia,
但我在那里很...好几次。 but I was there quite... Quite a few times.
纳坦兹在沙漠中。 Natanz is just in the middle of the desert.
当他们秘密建造的， When they were building it in secret,
他们被称之为沙漠灌溉设施。 they were calling it desert irrigation facility.
欺骗当地人， For the local people,
你想忽悠，为什么你还在这建得这么复杂。 you want to sell why you are building a big complex.
有很多炮兵和空军。 There is a lot of artillery and air force.
这是有更好措施，避免受空中打击 It's better protected against attack from air
比我都看到的任何其他核设施还好。 than any other nuclear installation I have seen.
这里是地下。 So this is deeply underground.
但随后在里面，纳坦兹是像任何其他离心机设施。 But then inside, natanz is like any other centrifuge facility.
我一直在世界各地，从巴西到俄罗斯，日本， I have been all over the world, from Brazil to Russia, Japan,
所以他们都有相似的自己的特色， so they are all alike with their own features,
自己的离心机，自己的文化， their own centrifuges, their own culture,
但基本上，该方法是相同的。 but basically, the process is the same.
国际原子能机构的监督活动也是这样。 And so are the monitoring activities of the iaea.
有基本原则。 There are basic principles.
你想看看在发生什么，什么已结束， You want to see what goes in, what goes out,
然后最重要的是您确保 and then on top of that you make sure that
产生低浓缩铀 it produces low enriched uranium
而不是任何与较高的富集 instead of anything to do with the higher enrichments
和核武器级铀。 and nuclear weapon grade uranium.
伊马德kiyaei：伊朗核设施 Emad kiyaei: Iran's nuclear facilities
正在24小时不间断值班。 are under 24-hour watch.
联合国核监督机构中， Of the united nations nuclear watchdog,
IAEA，国际原子能机构 the iaea, the international atomic energy agency.
每一克伊朗的裂变材料... Every single gram of iranian fissile material...
需解释。 Is accounted for.
他们一样，基本上封住他们把 They have, like, basically seals they put
裂变材料。有国际原子能机构密封。 on fissile materials. There are iaea seals.
你不能打破封印 You can't break it
不被注意的情况下。 without getting noticed.
海诺宁：当你看到铀 Heinonen: When you look at the uranium
这是存在于纳坦兹，这是一个非常特殊的铀。 which was there in natanz, it was a very special uranium.
这就是所谓的同位素236，这是一个令人迷一样的东西， This is called isotope 236, and that was a puzzle to us,
因为你只看到这种铀 because you only see this sort of uranium
有核武器的国家。 in states which have had nuclear weapons.
我们意识到他们骗了我们。 We realized that they had cheated us.
这类设备已经买了 This sort of equipment has been bought
从他们所谓的黑市。 from what they call a black market.
他们从来没有给a.Q.Khan指出 They never pointed out it to a.Q. Khan
在那个时间点。 at that point of time.
我感到惊讶的是其复杂性 What I was surprised was the sophistication
和质量控制 and the quality control
他们制造的方式 and the way they have the manufacturing
真的很专业。 was really professional.
这是不是，你知道，你刚创建 It was not something, you know, you just create
在几个月的时间。 in a few months' time.
这是一个漫长的过程的结果。 This was a result of a long process.
离心机里，你输入铀气体 A centrifuge, you feed uranium gas
你会看到呈瀑布式排列着数千台离心机， in and you have a cascade, thousands of centrifuges,
从另一端你得到浓缩铀。 and from the other end you get enriched uranium out.
它就是靠纺锤转子去分离铀的。 It separates uranium based on spinning the rotors.
它每秒旋转如此之快，300米/秒 It spins so fast, 300 meters per second,
与声音的速度相同。 the same as the velocity of sound.
这些都是巨大的力量 These are tremendous forces
并且作为结果，转子，它扭转， and as a result, the rotor, it twists,
在一个时间点，看起来像香蕉。 looks like a banana at one point of time.
所以它必须平衡 So it has to be balanced
因为任何小的震动就会爆炸。 because any small vibration it will blow up.
这样，来了另一个麻烦。 And here comes another trouble.
你必须提高温度 You have to raise the temperature
但这种非常薄的转子是... but this very thin rotor was...
它们是由碳纤维制成， They are made from carbon fiber,
其它配件，它们由金属制成。 and the other pieces, they are made from metal.
当你加热碳纤维，它缩小。 When you heat carbon fiber, it shrinks.
当你加热的金属，它扩大。 When you heat metal, it expands.
所以，你不仅需要平衡他们旋转， So you need to balance not only that they spin,
他们扭曲，但这种温度特性 they twist, but this temperature behavior
使得它不会被破坏掉。 in such a way that it doesn't break.
所以这必须非常精确。 So this has to be very precise.
这就是为什么他们很难制造。 This is what makes them very difficult to manufacture.
你可以模拟它，你可以计算它， You can model it, you can calculate it,
但在最后，它实际上是基于 but at the very end, it's actually based
实践和经验。 on practice and experience.
所以这是一个...这是一件艺术品，可以这么说。 So it's a... It's a piece of art, so to say.
男子： Man:
海诺宁：伊朗人对自己的离心机感到非常自豪 Heinonen: Iranians are very proud of their centrifuges.
他们有很多的公共视频 They have a lot of public relations videos
他们有他们所谓放弃总在四月时， given up always in April when they have what they call
国家原子核日。 a national nuclear day.
男子： Man:
Kiyaei：内贾德开始了他的总统演说 Kiyaei: Ahmadinejad came into his presidency saying
如果国际社会希望破坏我们 if the international community wants to derail us
我们会经得起考验。 we will stand up to it.
如果他们希望我们能够签署更多的检查协议 If they want us to sign more inspections
更多附加议定书，方法措施， and more additional protocols and other measures,
不，我们不会。我们会为自己的权利而战。 no, we will not. We will fight for our rights.
伊朗是核不扩散条约的签字国， Iran is a signature to nuclear non-proliferation treaty,
条约下，伊朗有核计划的权利。 and under that treaty, Iran has a right to a nuclear program.
我们可以富集。你是谁，世界大国， We can have enrichment. Who are you, world powers,
前来告诉我们，我们不能富集？ to come and tell us that we cannot have enrichment?
这是他的口头禅， This was his mantra,
给公众充电。 and it galvanized the public.
桑格：到2007年，2008年， Sanger: By 2007, 2008,
美国政府处于一个非常不利的地位 the U.S. government was in a very bad place with
就是关于伊朗的计划。 the iranian program.
布什总统认可 President bush recognized
他甚至不能在公开出来 that he could not even come out in public
宣布伊朗正在建造核武器， and declare that the iranians were building a nuclear weapon,
因为这个时候，他已经经历 because by this time, he had gone through
伊拉克大规模杀伤性武器全部惨败。 the entire wmd fiasco in Iraq.
他真的不能采取军事行动。 He could not really take military action.
康多莉扎·赖斯（美国前国务卿）对他说了一点， Condoleezza rice said to him at one point,
“你知道，总统先生，我想你已经入侵 "you know, Mr. president, I think you've invaded
你的最后的穆斯林国家，即使是最好的理由” your last Muslim country, even for the best of reasons."
他不想让以色列人 He didn't want to let the Israelis
进行军事行动。 conduct a military operation.
而现在的伊朗是1938年的德国，开始赛跑... It's 1938, and Iran is Germany and it's racing...
要使用原子弹武装自己。 To arm itself with atomic bombs.
必须停止伊朗的核野心。 Iran's nuclear ambitions must be stopped.
他们必须被停止。我们都必须停止，现在。 They have to be stopped. We all have to stop it, now.
这是一个消息。今天，我给你。 That's the one message i have for you today.
谢谢你。 - Thank you.
以色列说他们要去轰炸伊朗。 Israel was saying they were gonna bomb Iran.
在华盛顿的政府 And the government here in Washington
做了各种关于会发生什么的情景预测 did all sorts of scenarios about what would happen
如果以色列的攻击发生了。 if that Israeli attack occurred.
他们都会是非常难看的情景。 They were all very ugly scenarios.
我们相信如果他们自己去 Our belief was that if they went on their own
认识的局限性... knowing the limitations...
不，他们有一支非常优秀的空军，没事吧？ No, they're a very good air force, all right?
但它国家小，距离很远 But it's small and the distances are great
和目标的被对准和硬指，好吗？ and the target's disbursed and hardened, all right?
如果他们试图袭击 If they would have attempted a raid
用军用飞机， on a military plane,
我们会一直假定，假设他们 we would have been assuming that they were assuming
我们将完成说，他们开始的。 we would finish that which they started.
换句话说，会有很多我们 In other words, there would be many of us
政府里的人，突袭的目的是什么 in government thinking that the purpose of the raid
如果不是破坏伊朗核系统， wasn't to destroy the iranian nuclear system,
但袭击的目的是为了让我们与伊朗发生战争。 but the purpose of the raid was to put us at war with Iran.
以色列非常关心 Israel is very much concerned about
伊朗的核计划，比美国多。 Iran's nuclear program, more than the United States.
这很自然，因为这个国家的大小， It's only natural because of the size of the country,
因为我们住在它附近， because we live in this neighborhood,
美国与伊朗远隔千里万里。 America lives thousands and thousands miles away from Iran.
两国在目标达成一致。 The two countries agreed on the goal.
我们之间没有大事件 There is no page between us
伊朗不应该拥有核军事能力。 that Iran should not have a nuclear military capability.
有一定的差异 There are some differences
如何...如何实现呢 on how to... How to achieve it
什么时候需要采取行动。 and when action is needed.
Yadlin：我们正在非常认真对待 Yadlin: We are taking very seriously
打电话的多个国家领导人， 询问破坏事件， leaders of countries who call to the destruction
还有让我国人民遭受毁灭的事件。 and annihilation of our people.
如果伊朗将获得核武器， If Iran will get nuclear weapons,
现在还是将来... now or in the future...
这意味着，在人类历史上第一次 It means that for the first time in human history
伊斯兰狂热分子，宗教狂热者， islamic zealots, religious zealots,
会得到他们 will get their hand on
最危险的，毁灭性的武器， the most dangerous, devastating weapons,
世界应该避免这种情况发生。 and the world should prevent this.
萨莫尔：以色列人认为，伊朗领导层 Samore: The Israelis believe that the iranian leadership
已经作出制造核武器的决定 has already made the decision to build nuclear weapons
当他们认为他们可以逃脱它。 when they think they can get away with it.
在美国的观点是，伊朗人 The view in the U.S. is that the iranians
还没有作出了定案。 haven't made that final decision yet.
对我来说，没有任何区别。 To me, that doesn't make any difference.
我的意思是，它确实没有什么差别， I mean, it really doesn't make any difference,
和它可能是不可知的，除非你能说，你知道吗， and it's probably unknowable, unless you can put, you know,
在沙发上坐着最高领袖哈梅内伊，并采访了他。 supreme leader khamenei on the couch and interview him.
我想，你知道，从我们的角度来看， I think, you know, from our standpoint,
从门槛方面阻止伊朗 stopping Iran from getting the threshold capacity
就是，你知道，主要的政策目标。 is, you know, the primary policy objective.
一旦他们有裂变材料， Once they have the fissile material,
一旦他们有制造核武器的能力， once they have the capacity to produce nuclear weapons,
那么游戏失败。 then the game is lost.
海登：美国总统布什曾经对我说，他说， Hayden: President bush once said to me, he said,
“迈克，我不想曾经面对过任何一位总统 "Mike, I don't want any president ever to be faced
只有两个选择，轰炸或炸弹。” with only two options, bombing or the bomb."
对吗？ Right?
他...他想有选择...这使得它的选项... He... he wanted options that... That made it...
制造它不太可能，他或他的继任者 Made it far less likely he or his successor
他的接班人将永远到不了这一点 or successors would ever get to that point
在这里那是...那是你要做的。 where that's... That's all you've got.
我们希望能够足以精力充沛，去寻求这个问题的答案 We wanted to be energetic enough in pursuing this problem
那...那以色列人会当然会相信， that... that the Israelis would certainly believe,
“是的，我们得到它。” "yeah, we get it."
以色列情报合作方面 The intelligence cooperation between Israel
与美国是非常，非常好的。 and the United States is very, very good.
也因此，以色列需要美国 And therefore, the Israelis went to the Americans
说：“好吧，伙计们，你不希望我们去轰炸伊朗 and said, "okay, guys, you don't want us to bomb Iran.
好吧，让我们采取不同的方式吧。” Okay, let's do it differently."
然后是美国情报界就开始 And then the American intelligence community started
在联合部队里串动 rolling in joint forces
当然是与以色列情报机构一起的。 with the Israeli intelligence community.
有一天，一群情报和军事官员露面在 One day a group of intelligence and military officials showed up
布什总统的办公室 in president bush's office
说：“先生，我们有一个想法。 and said, "sir, we have an idea.
这是一个很大的风险。 It's a big risk.
它可能无法正常工作，但在这里它是“ It might not work, but here it is."
兰纳：在我的代码分析工作向前推进时， Langner: Moving forward in my analysis of the codes,
我仔细看了看这些照片 I took a closer look at the photographs
是有发表过的 that had been published
2008年，由伊朗人自己在记者参观团拍的 by the iranians themselves in a press tour from 2008
内贾德和闪亮的离心机 of ahmadinejad and the shiny centrifuges.
桑格：那么，内贾德的照片 Sanger: Well, photographs of ahmadinejad
在纳坦兹走过离心机旁 going through the centrifuges at natanz
提供了一些非常重要的线索 had provided some very important clues.
有需要学习一个巨大的数额 There was a huge amount to be learned.
首先，这些照片显示 First of all, those photographs showed
许多想给内贾德指明方向的一些人 many of the individuals who were guiding ahmadinejad
通过这个程序。 through the program.
有一非常有名的照片，显示出 And there's one very famous photograph that shows
内贾德正在秀的东西。 ahmadinejad being shown something.
你只能看到他的脸，你不能看到计算机上显示的是什么。 You see his face, you can't see what's on the computer.
他背后的一个科学家 And one of the scientists who was behind him
在几个月后遇刺身亡。 was assassinated a few months later.
兰纳：在这些照片之一， Langner: In one of those photographs,
你可以看到电脑屏幕的部分。 you could see parts of a computer screen.
我们...我们指的是SCADA（数据采集与监视控制系统）的屏幕。 We... we refer to that as a scada screen.
SCADA系统基本上是一个软件 The scada system is basically a piece of software
在计算机上运行。 running on a computer.
它使操作人员监视整个进程。 It enables the operators to monitor the processes.
当你看足够接近，你可以看到东西 What you could see when you look close enough
是一个结构更详细的视图 was a more detailed view of the configuration
有这六组离心机 there were these six groups of centrifuges
每组有164个进料口。 and each group had 164 entries.
你猜怎么着？ And guess what?
这与我们所看到的完美匹配 That was a perfect match to what we saw
在攻击代码。 in the attack code.
这是绝对清楚地表明这段代码 It was absolutely clear that this piece of code
在攻击六个不同组的阵列 was attacking an array of six different groups
我们只能说，一样的东西，实物， of, let's just say, thingies, physical objects,
在这些六组离心机，共有164入口。 and in those six groups, there were 164 elements.
吉布尼：你能够做任何实际的物理测试吗？ Gibney: Were you able to do any actual physical tests?
还是这一切只是通过代码分析得出的？ Or it was all just code analysis?
好，所以，你知道，我们显然 Yeah, so, you know, we obviously
不能建立我们自己的那种核浓缩设施。 couldn't set up our own sort of nuclear enrichment facility.
所以...但我们所做的，确实获得了一些PLC（可编程逻辑控制器） So... but what we did was we did obtain some plcs
确切的型号。 the exact models.
我们订购了一个“气泵”，我们也是用这个的 We then ordered an air pump, and that's what we used
作为我们的某种概念的证明。. sort of as our sort of proof of concept.
O'murchu：我们需要一个可视化的演示 O'murchu: We needed a visual demonstration
向人们展示我们所发现的。 to show people what we discovered.
所以，我们可以做到的，不同的东西，， So we thought of different things that we could do,
我们...我们决定“吹气球”。 and we... we settled on blowing up a balloon.
我们可以写一个程序，“充进气球”， We were able to write a program that would inflate a balloon,
设置让它五秒后停止吹气。 and it was set to stop after five seconds.
因此，这将气囊充气到一定规模 So it would inflate the balloon to a certain size
但它不会爆 but it wouldn't burst the balloon
这是一切平安。 and it was all safe.
我们给每个人看，这是代码 And we showed everybody, this is the code
这是针对PLC的。 that's on the plc.
定时器指令，“五秒钟后停止。” And the timer says, "stop after five seconds."
我们知道什么事情发生了。 We know that's what's going to happen.
然后我们用Stuxnet病毒感染计算机， And then we would infect the computer with stuxnet,
我们会再次运行测试。 and we would run the test again.
这是一个软件 Here is a piece of software
只应在网络领域存在 that should only exist in a cyber realm
它能影响真实的仪器 and it is able to affect physical equipment
无论在车间或工厂，造成物理伤害。 in a plant or factory and cause physical damage.
真实世界的物理破坏。 Real-world physical destruction.
那时，对我们来说，事情变得很可怕。 At that time, things became very scary to us.
在这里，恶意软件可能杀人 Here you had malware potentially killing people
那就是好莱坞式的东西给了我们 and that was something that was always Hollywood-esque to us
我们会一直嘲笑 that we'd always laugh at
那些提出那种论断的人们。 when people made that kind of assertion.
吉布尼：在这一点上，你不得不开始 Gibney: At this point, you had to have started developing
从理论上分析，谁设计了Stuxnet病毒。 theories as to who had built stuxnet.
它不输于我们 It wasn't lost on us that
有可能只有少数几个国家 there were probably only a few countries
在希望世界 in the world that would want
并有动机破坏 and have the motivation to sabotage
伊朗的核浓缩设施。 Iran's nuclear enrichment facility.
美国政府将在那里。 The U.S. government would be up there.
以色列政府肯定会...会在那里。 Israeli government certainly would be... would be up there.
你知道，也许英国，法国，德国， You know, maybe u.K., France, Germany,
那些五花八门的国家， those sorts of countries,
但我们从来没有发现任何信息 but we never found any information that
100％将比分扳成回...这些国家。 would tie it back 100 percent to... to those countries.
有没有蛛丝马迹。 There are no telltale signs.
要知道，攻击者不在其内留消息 You know, the attackers don't leave a message inside
说，你知道，“这就是我。” saying, you know, "it was me."
即使他们成功入侵，所有的东西也可以伪造。 And even if they did, all of that stuff can be faked.
所以这是非常，非常困难的事 So it's very, very difficult to do attribution
看着电脑代码时。 when looking at computer code.
吉布尼：即已经完成后续工作 Gibney: Subsequent work that's been done
让我们相信，这是协作的成果 leads us to believe that this was the work of
以色列和美国之间的协作。 a collaboration between Israel and the United States.
啊，是啊。 Yeah, yeah.
吉布尼：你有什么证据 Gibney: Did you have any evidence
根据分析代码 in terms of your analysis
这将使你相信 that would lead you to believe that
这也是正确吗？ that's correct also?
摄像头下我什么都不能讲。 Nothing that I could talk about on camera.
吉布尼：嗯，我问为什么？ Gibney: Well, can I ask why?
不 No.
嗯，你可以问，但我不会回答。 Well, you can, but I won't answer.
吉布尼：但即使是在民主国家的情况下， Gibney: But even in the case of nation-states,
我的意思是，关注的问题之一是... I mean, one of the concerns is...
吉布尼：这是开始真正让我反感 Gibney: This was beginning to really piss me off.
即使老百姓对Stuxnet讲故事也很感兴趣 Even civilians with an interest in telling the stuxnet story
拒绝讲述特拉维夫的作用 were refusing to address the role of Tel Aviv
还有华盛顿的作用。但幸运的是我， and Washington. But luckily for me,
华盛顿特区是秘密的城市， while D.C. is a city of secrets,
它也是泄密的城市。 it is also a city of leaks.
他们象心跳一样正常地跳动 They're as regular as a heartbeat
但同样很难停下来。 and just as hard to stop.
这就是我指望的。 That's what I was counting on.
最后，讲了一些背景后的人， Finally, after speaking to a number of people on background,
我没有找到证据，对记录的方式，. I did find a way of confirming, on the record,
美国在Stuxnet病毒中的角色。 the American role in stuxnet.
详情细操作的交换， In exchange for details of the operation,
我不得不同意去找到一种方法 I had to agree to find a way
伪装信息的来源。 to disguise the source of the information.
吉布尼：我们是好的？ - 男：我们对的 - Gibney: We're good? - Man: We're on.
吉布尼：所以，第一个问题我要问你 Gibney: So the first question I have to ask you
是关于保密。 is about secrecy.
我的意思是，在这一点上，每个人都知道Stuxnet病毒。 I mean, at this point, everyone knows about stuxnet.
为什么我们不能谈论它？ Why can't we talk about it?
这是一个秘密行动。 It's a covert operation.
吉布尼：不会再是 Gibney: Not anymore.
我的意思是，我们知道发生了什么，我们知道是谁做的。 I mean, we know what happened, we know who did it.
好吧，也许你不知道的与你认为你知道的一样多。 Well, maybe you don't know as much as you think you know.
吉布尼：好吧，我跟你说话，因为我想 Gibney: Well, I'm talking to you because I want to
拿到故事的权利。 get the story right.
嗯，这是我跟你说话一样的道理。 Well, that's the same reason I'm talking to you.
吉布尼：尽管这是一个秘密行动 Gibney: Even though it's a covert operation?
看，这是不是一个斯诺登之类的话，好吗？ Look, this is not a snowden kind of thing, okay?
我认为他的所作所为是错的。 I think what he did was wrong.
他走得太远了。他一语道破太多。 He went too far. He gave away too much.
与斯诺登，谁是承包商， Unlike snowden, who was a contractor,
我是国家安全局。 I was in NSA.
我相信代理，所以我很愿意给你 I believe in the agency, so what I'm willing to give you
将是有限的，但我们现在讨论 will be limited, but we're talking
因为每个人的得到错误的故事 because everyone's getting the story wrong
，我们必须得到它的权利。 and we have to get it right.
我们必须了解这些新的武器。 We have to understand these new weapons.
赌注太高。 The stakes are too high.
吉布尼：你是什么意思 Gibney: What do you mean?
我们确实开发了Stuxnet病毒。 We did stuxnet.
这是一个事实。 It's a fact.
你知道，我们离灾难太他妈的近， You know, we came so fucking close to disaster,
而且我们仍然在边缘。 and we're still on the edge.
这是一个巨大的跨国，跨部门的运作。 It was a huge multinational, interagency operation.
在美国这是CIA，. In the U.S. it was CIA,
NSA和军方网络司令部。 NSA, and the military cyber command.
来自英国，我们使用了英特尔伊朗出来GCHQ的， From britain, we used Iran intel out of gchq,
但主要合作伙伴是以色列。 but the main partner was Israel.
那边，摩萨德在开展会， Over there, Mossad ran the show,
技术工作由8200去做 and the technical work was done by unit 8200.
以色列是故事真正的关键。 Israel is really the key to the story.
梅尔曼：呵呵，以色列交通是如此不可预测的。 Melman: Oh, traffic in Israel is so unpredictable.
吉布尼：贝纳，你是怎么进入Stuxnet这整个故事的？ Gibney: Yossi, how did you get into this whole stuxnet story?
我一直在掩盖以色列情报机构 I have been covering the Israeli intelligence
在一般情况下，特别是在摩萨德 in general, in the Mossad in particular
近30年。 for nearly 30 years.
从82年开始，我是一个总部位于伦敦的记者 In '82, I was a London-based correspondent
我掩盖了审讯中的一个恐怖分子， and I covered a trial of terrorists,
我更加熟悉了恐怖主义这一主题， and I became more familiar with this topic of terrorism,
缓慢而稳步地，我开始掩盖它。 and slowly but surely, I started covering it as a beat.
以色列，我们一个非常粗鲁的邻居 Israel, we live in a very rough neighborhood
那里...民主价值观， where the... The Democratic values,
西方的价值观，是非常罕见的。 western values, are very rare.
但以色列伪装成一个自由，民主， But Israel pretends to be a free, Democratic,
西化的社会， westernized society,
豪华社区，富民， posh neighborhoods, rich people,
青少年 youngsters who are having
与美国几乎相似的思维 almost similar mind-set to their American
或西欧一样。 or western European counterparts.
在另一方面，你会看到很多场景 On the other hand, you see a lot of scenes
和事件，类似于真正的中东， and events which resemble the real middle east,
激进分子，狂热分子，宗教狂热者及其进行的恐怖袭击。 terror attacks, radicals, fanatics, religious zealots.
我知道，以色列正试图减慢 I knew that Israel is trying to slow down
伊朗的核计划速度， Iran's nuclear program,
因此，我得出的结论是 and therefore, i came to the conclusion that
如果有一个病毒感染伊朗人的电脑 if there was a virus infecting Iran's computers,
这...这是多了一个元素...在这个大图 it's... it's one more element in... in this larger picture
根据以往的先例。. based on past precedents.
Yadlin： 1981年，我是一架F-16战斗机的飞行员， Yadlin: 1981 I was an f-16 pilot,
我们被告知，不像我们的梦想的一样 and we were told that, unlike our dream
为干掉米格而进行缠斗， to do dogfights and to kill migs,
我们要为一个长期的任务做好准备 we have to be prepared for a long-range mission
摧毁一个有价值的目标。 to destroy a valuable target.
没有人告诉我们是什么 Nobody told us what is
这个非常有价值的战略目标。 this very valuable strategic target.
距离以色列600英里。 It was 600 miles from Israel.
所以我们自我培养来完成这项工作， So we train our self to do the job,
这是非常困难的。在那个年代，没有空中加油。 which was very difficult. No air refueling at that time.
没有卫星侦察。 No satellites for reconnaissance.
燃料有限。 Fuel was on the limit.
飞行员：什么？哇！ ！哇. Pilot: What? Whoa! Whoa!
Yadlin：一天结束时，的 Yadlin: At the end of the day,
我们完成了使命。 we accomplished the mission.
吉布尼：这是什么？ Gibney: Which was?
Yadlin：摧毁伊拉克核反应堆 Yadlin: To destroy the Iraqi nuclear reactor
巴格达附近，被称为奥西拉克的地方。 near Baghdad, which was called osirak.
伊拉克没有能够完成这个梦寐以求的目标 And Iraq never was able to accomplish
就是梦想拥有核弹。 its ambition to have a nuclear bomb.
梅尔曼：阿莫斯yadlin，一般yadlin， Melman: Amos yadlin, general yadlin,
他是军事情报负责人。 he was the head of the military intelligence.
在该组织内的最大单位 The biggest unit within that organization
是编号8200 was unit 8200.
他们会阻止电话，他们会阻止传真， They'd block telephones, they'd block faxes,
他们闯入计算机。 they're breaking into computers.
十年前，当Yadlin当了 A decade ago, when yadlin became
军事情报局长， the chief of military intelligence,
在8200里，没有网络作战部 there was no cyber warfare unit in 8200.
于是，他们开始招募很有才华的人， So they started recruiting very talented people,
要么是军队里黑客 hackers either from the military
或者是军队外的有用之才 or outside the military that can contribute
来完成建立一个网络部队的项目。 to the project of building a cyber warfare unit.
Yadlin：在19世纪，只有陆军和海军 Yadlin: In the 19th century, there were only army and Navy.
在20世纪，我们得到了空中力量 In the 20th century, we got air power
作为战争的第三个维度。 as a third dimension of war.
在21世纪， In the 21st century,
网络将成为战争的第四维。 cyber will be the fourth dimension of war.
这是另一种武器 It's another kind of weapon
并且它是无范围限制的，并速度很快 and it is for unlimited range in a very high speed
并且费用低，不需要高层额外签名批准。 and in a very low signature.
所以这给你一个巨大的机会... So this give you a huge opportunity...
和超级大国必须改变 And the superpowers have to change
我们思考战争的方式。 the way we think about warfare.
最后，我们正在改变我们的军事 Finally we are transforming our military
新的战争，我们现在的战斗... for a new kind of war that we're fighting now...
和明天的战争。 And for wars of tomorrow.
我们的军队比以前训练得更好了， We have made our military better trained,
更好的装备，更好的准备 better equipped, and better prepared
以满足当今美国面临的威胁 to meet the threats facing America today
明天和未来。 and tomorrow and long in the future.
桑格：回到布什政府末期 Sanger: Back in the end of the bush administration,
美国政府内的人 people within the U.S. government
刚刚开始说服布什总统 were just beginning to convince president bush
将资金投入进攻性网络武器。 to pour money into offensive cyber weapons.
Stuxnet蠕虫在国防部开始了。 Stuxnet started off in the defense department.
然后罗伯特·盖茨国防部长， Then Robert gates, secretary of defense,
审查这项计划，他说： reviewed this program and he said,
“这个项目不应该在国防部 "this program shouldn't be in the defense department.
当局确实应该隐蔽这个项目 This should really be under the covert authorities
当然是指在情报界” over in the intelligence world."
所以中央情报局非常深入参与 So the CIA was very deeply involved
在此项目的运作， in this operation,
而大部分编码工作已完成 while much of the coding work was done
由国家安全局 by the national security agency
和8200，它相当于以色列对应部门， and unit 8200, its Israeli equivalent,
与新创建的军事职能部门进行合作 working together with a newly created military position
所谓的美国网络司令部。 called U.S. cyber command.
有趣的是，美国国家安全局的主任 And interestingly, the director of the national security agency
也将有第二个角色 would also have a second role
即作为美国网络司令部司令。 as the commander of U.S. cyber command.
美国网络司令部位于 And U.S. cyber command is located
国家安全局在米德堡在同一建筑物里。 at fort Meade in the same building as the NSA.
上校加里·D·布朗：我部署了一年 Col. Gary d. Brown: I was deployed for a year
为伊拉克和阿富汗的空中行动提供指导意见 giving advice on air operations in Iraq and Afghanistan,
之后，我回国， and when I was returning home after that,
我得到的任务是去 the assignment I was given was to go
接受美国的网络司令部的命令。 to U.S. cyber command.
网络司令部是一个... Cyber command is a...
是军事指挥，负责 Is the military command that's responsible for
国家的军事基本上传导 essentially the conducting of the nation's military affairs
在网络空间。 in cyberspace.
所述的原因，美国 The stated reason the United States
决定它需要一个网络司令部 decided it needed a cyber command
是因为一个被称作“操作美国佬巴克肖特”的事件。 was because of an event called operation buckshot yankee.
克里斯·英格利斯：在2008年秋天， Chris inglis: In the fall of 2008,
我们发现了敌人 we found some adversaries inside
在我们的保密网络里。 of our classified networks.
虽然它并不完全是真实 While it wasn't completely true
我们一直认为我们是成功的 that we always assumed that we were successful
在设障防卫方面， at defending things at the barrier,
在...防卫线方面，我们的战线 at the... at the kind of perimeter that we might have
我们的网络和外部世界之间 between our networks and the outside world,
有很大的信心 there was a large confidence
我们大多是成功的。 that we'd been mostly successful.
但那是一时的，当我们来到 But that was a moment in time when we came to
快速得出结论，这...这是不是真的永远安全。 the quick conclusion that it... It's not really ever secure.
这则加速国防的部门 That then accelerated the department of defense's
最终走向极端 progress towards what ultimately
成立网络司令部。 became cyber command.
早上好。 Good morning.
早上好，先生。网络对你今天的一个项目。 Good morning, sir. Cyber has one item for you today.
本周早些时候，antok分析 Earlier this week, antok analysts
使用已知的方法检测到外部的敌人 detected a foreign adversary using known methods
访问美国的军事网络。 to access the U.S. military network.
我们确定了恶意活动 We identified the malicious activity
通过我们的信息保证系统，收集到了数据 via data collected through our information assurance
以及情报当局的信号 and signals from intelligence authorities
并确认这是一个网络对手。 and confirmed it was a cyber adversary.
我们在国防部提供的数据对我们的网络合作伙伴... We provided data to our cyber partners within the dod...
你认为国家安全局作为一个机构 You think of NSA as an institution
基本上利用其能力在网络空间 that essentially uses its abilities in cyberspace
帮助在该空间保卫的通信。 to help defend communications in that space.
网络司令部扩展了功能 Cyber command extends that capability
说，他们随后将承担责任攻击。 by saying that they will then take responsibility to attack.
海登： NSA没有法律权力来进行攻击 Hayden: NSA has no legal authority to attack.
这是从来没有过，我怀疑它永远会。 It's never had it, I doubt that it ever will.
这或许可以解释为什么美国网络司令部 It might explain why U.S. cyber command
是在米德堡之上坐了 is sitting out at fort Meade on top of
美国国家安全局， the national security agency,
因为国家安全局有能力做这些事情。 because NSA has the abilities to do these things.
网络司令部有做这些事情的权限。 Cyber command has the authority to do these things.
而“这些事”在这里指的是网络攻击。 And "these things" here refer to the cyber-attack.
这是一个巨大的变化 This is a huge change
对情报机构的性质。 for the nature of the intelligence agencies.
国家安全局应该是一个代码制作 The NSA was supposed to be a code-making
和密码破译操作 and code-breaking operation
监测列强通信 to monitor the communications of foreign powers
和美国的敌人 and American adversaries
在美国的防务。 in the defense of the United States.
但是创建使用网络命令的意思 But creating a cyber command meant using
同样的技术做罪行。 the same technology to do offense.
一旦你对手的计算机网络里面， Once you get inside an adversary's computer networks,
你把植入的网络。 you put an implant in that network.
我们有数以万计的外国电脑 And we have tens of thousands of foreign computers
和网络，美国把植入物2007 and networks that the United States put implants in.
你可以用它来监控跨去 You can use it to monitor what's going across
该网络，你可以用它 that network and you can use it
插入网络武器，恶意软件。 to insert cyber weapons, malware.
如果你能在网络上窥视，你可以操纵它。 If you can spy on a network, you can manipulate it.
它已经包括在内。 It's already included.
你唯一需要的是意志的行为。 The only thing you need is an act of will.
NSA来源：我打在伊拉克的作用 NSA source: I played a role in Iraq.
我不能告诉你它是否是军事与否， I can't tell you whether it was military or not,
但我可以告诉你. but I can tell you
NSA曾在国家作战支援队。 NSA had combat support teams in country.
而对于第一次，单位在现场 And for the first time, units in the field
不得不NSA英特尔的直接访问。 had direct access to NSA intel.
随着时间的推移，我们认为更多的进攻 Over time, we thought more about offense
比防守，你知道， than defense, you know,
更多比智力攻击。 more about attacking than intelligence.
在过去，信号情报单位会尝试跟踪收音机， In the old days, sigint units would try to track radios,
而是通过NSA在伊拉克， but through NSA in Iraq,
我们接触到所有的网络 we had access to all the networks
进出国门。 going in and out of the country.
我们hoovered每隔短信， And we hoovered up every text message,
电子邮件和电话。 email, and phone call.
一个完整的监控状态。 A complete surveillance state.
我们可以发现坏人，比如说，一个团伙制作简易爆炸装置， We could find the bad guys, say, a gang making ieds,
映射他们的网络，并按照他们的实时性。 map their networks, and follow them in real time.
士兵：罗杰. Soldier: Roger.
NSA来源：和我们能锁定手机 NSA source: And we could lock into cell phones
甚至当他们离开，并发送一个虚假的文字 even when they were off and send a fake text
从朋友，建议会议地点， from a friend, suggest a meeting place,
然后捕获... and then capture...
士兵： 1A，清火 Soldier: 1A, clear to fire.
或者杀死。 ...or kill.
士兵：拍好 Soldier: Good shot.
布朗：很多人认为来到网络命令， Brown: A lot of the people that came to cyber command,
军事家伙，直接来到 the military guys, came directly from
在阿富汗或伊拉克的任务， an assignment in Afghanistan or Iraq,
cecause那些有经验的人 'cause those are the people with experience
和运营专长， and expertise in operations,
和那些是你希望在看这个的人 and those are the ones you want looking at this
怎么看网络可以促进 to see how cyber could facilitate
传统的军事行动。 traditional military operations.
NSA来源：免受浪涌，新鲜出炉 NSA source: Fresh from the surge,
我去国家安全局在07年的监管能力工作。 I went to work at NSA in '07 in a supervisory capacity.
吉布尼：到底你在哪里工作. Gibney: Exactly where did you work?
NSA来源：米德堡 NSA source: Fort Meade.
你知道，我改判了大量复杂 You know, I commuted to that massive complex
每一天。 every single day.
我是在陶S321，“中华民国”。 I was in tao-s321, "the roc."
吉布尼：好吧，张国焘，中华民国 Gibney: Okay, the tao, the roc?
对，对不起。陶量身定制的访问操作。 Right, sorry. Tao is tailored access operations.
这就是国家安全局的工作黑客。 It's where NSA's hackers work.
当然，我们并没有给他们打电话的。 Of course, we didn't call them that.
吉布尼：什么你给他们打电话. Gibney: What did you call them?
NSA来源：净运营商 NSA source: On net operators.
他们是国家安全局的唯一的人允许打破 They're the only people at NSA allowed to break in
或lnternet上的攻击。 or attack on the Internet.
里面涛总部是大鹏， Inside tao headquarters is the roc,
远程操作中心。 remote operations center.
如果美国政府想要在某处得到， If the U.S. government wants to get in somewhere,
它去中华民国。 it goes to the roc.
我的意思是，我们用的请求淹没。 I mean, we were flooded with requests.
这么多，我们只能做些什么，毫米， So many that we could only do about, mm,
一次被要求我们的任务30％， 30% of the missions that were requested of us at one time,
通过Web through the web
也受到劫持零件出货。 but also by hijacking shipments of parts.
你知道，有时候中情局将协助 You know, sometimes the CIA would assist
输入植入机器中， inputting implants in machines,
所以一旦目标网络里面， so once inside a target network,
我们可以只... we could just...
表... Watch...
或者我们可以攻击。 Or we could attack.
里面NSA是一个奇怪的一种文化， Inside NSA was a strange kind of culture,
一样，两部分大男子主义军事 like, two parts macho military
和两部分网络怪胎。我的意思是，我从伊拉克传来， and two parts cyber geek. I mean, I came from Iraq,
所以我习惯了，“是的，先生。没有，先生。” so I was used to, "yes, sir. No, sir."
但对于程序员武器 But for the weapons programmers
我们需要更多的“条条框框”的类型。 we needed more "think outside the box" types.
从机柜至机柜的， From cubicle to cubicle,
你会看到光剑，符段， you'd see lightsabers, tribbles,
的火影忍者人物动作， those naruto action figures,
大量的的水色青少年的饥饿力量。 lots of aqua teen hunger force.
这一个人，他们大多是男人， This one guy, they were mostly guys,
谁喜欢穿黄色连帽斗篷， who liked to wear a yellow hooded cape,
他用一吨灰积木的建立一个巨大的死星。 he used a ton of gray legos to build a massive death star.
吉布尼：分别都工作的Stuxnet. Gibney: Were they all working on stuxnet?
NSA来源：我们从来没有把它叫做Stuxnet的 NSA source: We never called it stuxnet.
这是防病毒软件的人发明的名字。 That was the name invented by the antivirus guys.
当见报后， When it hit the papers,
我们不准阅读分类操作， we're not allowed to read about classified operations,
哪怕是在的纽约时报。 even if it's in the New York times.
我们走出了我们的方式，以避免术语。 We went out of our way to avoid the term.
我的意思，说：“震网”大声 I mean, saying "stuxnet" out loud
就像是在的哈利·波特说：“伏地魔”。 was like saying "Voldemort" in Harry Potter.
没有不被人说出这个名字。 The name that shall not be spoken.
吉布尼：你是怎么叫它再 Gibney: What did you call it then?
纳坦兹的攻击，这就是在那里已经， The natanz attack, and this is out there already,
被称为奥运会或OG。 was called olympic games or og.
有一个巨大的操作来测试代码 There was a huge operation to test the code
上的PLC这里有米德堡 on plcs here are fort Meade
和桑迪亚国家实验室，新墨西哥州。 and in sandia, new Mexico.
布什时期记住 Remember during the bush era
当利比亚上缴所有的离心机？ when Libya turned over all the centrifuges?
这些都是同一型号的伊朗人得到 Those were the same models the iranians got
从a.Q.汗。 P1的。 from a.Q. Khan. P1's.
我们把他们带到橡树岭，并用它们 We took them to oak Ridge and used them
来测试其拆除内侧的代码。 to test the code which demolished the insides.
在迪莫纳，以色列还测试了在P1的。 At dimona, the Israelis also tested on the p1's.
然后，部分通过使用我们的伊朗英特尔 Then, partly by using our intel on Iran,
我们得到了较新的机型，IR-2的计划。 we got the plans for the newer models, the ir-2's.
我们尝试了不同的攻击向量。 We tried out different attack vectors.
最后我们重点是如何摧毁转筒。 We ended up focusing on ways to destroy the rotor tubes.
在我们进行的测试，我们吹响它们分开。 In the tests we ran, we blew them apart.
他们打扫好碎片， They swept up the pieces,
他们把它放在飞机上，他们就飞往华盛顿， they put it on an airplane, they flew it to Washington,
他们始终不离不弃，卡车， they stuck it in the truck,
他们开着它通过白宫的大门， they drove it through the gates of the white house,
和倾倒碎片列于会议桌 and dumped the shards out on the conference room table
在房间里的情况。 in the situation room.
然后他们邀请布什总统 And then they invited president bush
下来看一看。 to come down and take a look.
而当他可以拿起碎片 And when he could pick up the shard
一块离心机的... of a piece of centrifuge...
他深信这可能是值得的， He was convinced this might be worth it,
他说，“尽管试试。” and he said, "go ahead and try."
吉布尼：有没有在布什政府内部的法律问题 Gibney: Was there legal concern inside the bush administration
这可能是不宣而战的行为？ that this might be an act of undeclared war?
如果有顾虑，我还没有找到他们。 If there were concerns, i haven't found them.
这并不意味着他们不存在 That doesn't mean that they didn't exist
和一些律师的地方 and that some lawyers somewhere
不关心它， weren't concerned about it,
但是这是一个全新的领域。 but this was an entirely new territory.
当时，真有极少数人 At the time, there were really very few people
谁了专门的专业知识战争和网络的规律。 who had expertise specifically on the law of war and cyber.
基本上我们所做的是在看，还好， And basically what we did was looking at, okay,
这里是我们的大方向。 here's our broad direction.
现在，让我们来看看...我们在技术上能做些什么 Now, let's look... Technically what can we do
促进这一大方向？ to facilitate this broad direction?
之后，也许...我会进来 After that, maybe the... I would come in
或我的律师的人会过来说， or one of my lawyers would come in and say,
“好了，这就是我们可以这样做。”好的。 "okay, this is what we may do." Okay.
有很多事情可以做， There are many things we can do,
但我们不允许做他们。 but we are not allowed to do them.
并在那之后，仍然有最后一级 And then after that, there's still a final level
我们来看看，这就是，我们该怎么办？ that we look at and that's, what should we do?
因为有很多事情会 Because there are many things that would be
技术上是可行的，技术上的法律 technically possible and technically legal
但一个坏主意。 but a bad idea.
对于纳坦兹，这是一个中央情报局领导的行动， For natanz, it was a CIA-led operation,
所以我们不得不机构注销。 so we had to have agency sign-off.
吉布尼：真的 Gibney: Really?
从代理某人 Someone from the agency
站在运营商和分析师后面 stood behind the operator and the analyst
并下令发动每一次进攻。 and gave the order to launch every attack.
简：之前，他们已经甚至开始这种攻击， Chien: Before they had even started this attack,
他们把代码击杀日期里面， they put inside of the code the kill date,
在它会停止运行的日期。. a date at which it would stop operating.
O'murchu：截止日期，我们通常不会看到 O'murchu: Cutoff dates, we don't normally see that
其他威胁，你要想到， in other threats, and you have to think,
“好了，为什么会出现在那里的截止日期吗？” "well, why is there a cutoff date in there?"
当你意识到这一点，好，Stuxnet病毒可能是 And when you realize that, well, stuxnet was probably
写的政府和有法律 written by government and that there are laws
关于如何使用这种软件， regarding how you can use this sort of software,
，有可能是一个法律团队，谁说，“不，你... that there may have been a legal team who said, "no, you...
你需要在那里一个截止日期， You need to have a cutoff date in there,
你只能做到这一点，你只能走那么远 and you can only do this and you can only go that far
我们需要检查是否是合法与否 and we need to check if this is legal or not.
这日期是奥巴马就职典礼前几天 That date is a few days before Obama's inauguration.
所以理论是，这是一个操作 So the theory was that this was an operation
在某个时间要停止 that needed to be stopped at a certain time
因为会有一个交接 because there was gonna be a handover
并且需要更多的批准。 and that more approval was needed.
参议员，你会履行的誓言吗？ Are you prepared to take the oath, senator?
我会的 I am.
我，巴拉克·侯赛因·奥巴马... I, Barack Hussein Obama...
我，巴拉克... - 郑重宣誓... - I, Barack... - Do solemnly swear...
我，巴拉克·侯赛因·奥巴马，庄严宣誓... I, Barack Hussein Obama, do solemnly swear...
桑格：奥运会是由奥巴马总统重新批准的 Sanger: Olympic games was reauthorized by president Obama
在他上任的第一年，2009年 in his first year in office, 2009.
这是很有趣的，因为它是第一年 It was fascinating because it was the first year of
奥巴马政府，他们会跟你说话 the Obama administration and they would talk to you
网络防御永不休止。 endlessly about cyber defense.
奥巴马：我们依靠计算机网络 Obama: We count on computer networks
提供给我们石油和天然气，我们的电力，我们的水。 to deliver our oil and gas, our power, and our water.
我们的公共交通也依靠它 We rely on them for public transportation
还有空中交通管制。 and air traffic control.
但正如我们曾经失败过 But just as we failed in the past
只顾投资于我们的物理基础设施， to invest in our physical infrastructure,
我们的道路，我们的桥梁和铁轨， our roads, our Bridges, and rails,
我们却没有投资于安全方面 we failed to invest in the security
我们的数字基础设施。 of our digital infrastructure.
桑格：他在东厅活动 Sanger: He was running east room events
试图让人们把重点放在需要 trying to get people to focus on the need to
捍卫网络网络 defend cyber networks
和捍卫美国的基础设施。 and defend American infrastructure.
但是，当你询问有关使用问题 But when you asked questions about the use of
进攻性网络武器，一切都进入死路。 offensive cyber weapons, everything went dead.
没有合作。 No cooperation.
白宫不会提供帮助，五角大厦不愿帮忙， White house wouldn't help, Pentagon wouldn't help,
NSA（国家安全局）也帮不了。 NSA wouldn't help.
没有人会跟你说话了。 Nobody would talk to you about it.
但是当你跟踪预算方面 But when you dug into the budget
即奥巴马政府在网络花费， for cyber spending during the Obama administration,
你发现的是 what you discovered was
大部分是被花费在网络武器进攻方面。 much of it was being spent on offensive cyber weapons.
你看这个词语，如“称号10 CNO。” You see phrases like "title 10 cno."
标题10意味着为美国军方消费项目， Title 10 means operations for the U.S. military,
和CNO意味着计算机网络项。 and cno means computer network operations.
这是明显的证据 This is considerable evidence
是Stuxnet的只是开幕式 that stuxnet was just the opening wedge
现在，美国政府正在进行一个更广泛的努力， of what is a much broader U.S. government effort now
开发完全新型的网络武器。 to develop an entire new class of weapons.
简： Stuxnet不仅仅是一种演化产物 Chien: Stuxnet wasn't just an evolution.
这却实是威胁国土安全的革命。 It was really a revolution in the threat landscape.
在过去，我们看到了绝大多数的威胁 In the past, the vast majority of threats that we saw
总是由操作者某处控制。 were always controlled by an operator somewhere.
他们会感染你的机器 They would infect your machines,
但他们有所谓的返馈 but they would have what's called a callback
或命令和控制通道。 or a command-and-control channel.
该威胁实际上与幕后操作人有关系 The threats would actually contact the operator
说，你要什么我下一步该怎么做？ and say, what do you want me to do next?
而幕后操作者会下达指令 And the operator would send down commands
说，也许，通过搜索这个目录， and say, maybe, search through this directory,
找到这些文件夹，找到这些文件， find these folders, find these files,
这些文件上传给我，再扩展到其他机器 upload these files to me, spread to this other machine,
这种性质的东西。 things of that nature.
但Stuxnet蠕虫不可能有一个指挥和控制通道 But stuxnet couldn't have a command-and-control channel
因为一旦它走进纳坦兹 because once it got inside in natanz
它不会已经能够达到回给攻击者。 it would not have been able to reach back out to the attackers.
纳坦兹的网络是完全被防火墙阻断 The natanz network is completely air gapped
从互联网上的其余部分隔离 from the rest of the Internet.
它不连接到互联网。 It's not connected to the Internet.
这是它自己独立的网络。 It's its own isolated network.
一般情况下，通过防火墙越来越是... Generally, getting across an air gap is...
是比较困难的挑战之一 Is one of the more difficult challenges
攻击者将面临一个事实，即 that attackers will face just because of the fact that
那里...一切都到位，以防止 there... everything is in place to prevent that.
你知道，一切，你知道，政策和程序 You know, everything, you know, the policies and procedures
那就是代替物理网络 and the physical network that's in place is
专门设计，以防止你穿越防火墙 specifically designed to prevent you crossing the air gap.
但目前还没有真正的防火墙 But there's no truly air-gapped network
在如今现实的生产环境里 in these real-world production environments.
人们得让新的代码传入纳坦兹。 People gotta get new code into natanz.
人们必须从纳坦兹获该取网络日志文件。 People have to get log files off of this network in natanz.
人们必须升级设备。 People have to upgrade equipment.
人们不得不升级电脑。 People have to upgrade computers.
这凸显了一个主要的 This highlights one of the major
我们在该领域安全问题。 security issues that we have in the field.
如果你想，“嗯，没有人可以攻击 If you think, "well, nobody can attack
这个电厂或本化工厂 this power plant or this chemical plant
因为它没有连接到互联网，” because it's not connected to the Internet,"
这是一个奇怪的错觉。 that's a bizarre illusion.
NSA（国家安全局）来源：第一次我们将代码植入到纳坦兹 NSA source: The first time we introduced the code into natanz
我们使用人的智慧， we used human assets,
也许CIA（中央情报局），更象摩萨德 maybe CIA, more likely Mossad,
但我们团队的相关技术交易不会被曝光。 but our team was kept in the dark about the trade craft.
我们在莫斯科听到传闻， We heard rumors in Moscow,
由一个冒充西门子技术人员的人，感染了伊朗的一台记本电脑 an iranian laptop infected by a phony Siemens technician
用一个USB... with a flash drive...
在伊朗的一个双重间谍入侵纳坦兹 A double agent in Iran with access to natanz,
但我真的不知道。 but I don't really know.
我们不得不把重点放在了编写代码方面 What we had to focus on was to write the code
这样一来，一旦进入，蠕虫自行其是。 so that, once inside, the worm acted on its own.
他们建造中的所有代码和所有逻辑 They built in all the code and all the logic
进入威胁能够通过自身来操作的所有指令。 into the threat to be able to operate all by itself.
它有自身传播的能力。 It had the ability to spread by itself.
它有能力搞清楚，我是否掌握了逻辑程序控制器？ It had the ability to figure out, do I have the right plcs?
我是否到了纳坦兹？我的目标是否正确？ Have I arrived in natanz? Am I at the target?
兰纳：和当它瞄准目标时， Langner: And when it's on target,
它开始自动执行。 it executes autonomously.
这也意味着你...你不能停止此进攻。 That also means you... You cannot call off the attack.
这肯定是攻击类型 It was definitely the type of attack
如果有人已决定了 where someone had decided
这正是他们想做的事。 that this is what they wanted to do.
一旦Stuxnet病毒被释放，没有回头路。 There was no turning back once stuxnet was released.
当它实际开始执行其任务， When it began to actually execute its payload,
你的一大堆离心机 you would have a whole bunch of centrifuges
在大厅里级联排列着。 in a huge array of cascades sitting in a big hall.
然后，就在这大厅 And then just off that hall
有一个程序操作房间， you would have an operators room,
在他们前面的控制面板，一个大窗口 the control panels in front of them, a big window
在那里他们可以看到大厅。 where they could see into the hall.
计算机监控所有的活动 Computers monitor the activities
所有这些离心机。 of all these centrifuges.
离心机，它是由电动马达驱动。 So a centrifuge, it's driven by an electrical motor.
而这种电机的速度 And the speed of this electrical motor
由另一个PLC控制， is controlled by another plc,
就是由可编程逻辑控制器控制的。 by another programmable logic controller.
简： Stuxnet病毒会等待13天 Chien: Stuxnet would wait for 13 days
做任何事情之前， before doing anything,
因为13天是即将花费的时间 because 13 days is about the time it takes
实际上填补离心机的整个级联 to actually fill an entire cascade of centrifuges
铀。 with uranium.
他们不想去攻出，当离心机基本上是 They didn't want to attack when the centrifuges essentially
空载或在浓缩过程刚刚开始的时候 were empty or at the beginning of the enrichment process.
Stuxnet蠕虫所做的是有的放矢 What stuxnet did was it actually would sit there
在13天里，基本记录了 during the 13 days and basically record
所有正常的活动 all of the normal activities
正在发生什么，并保存记录。 that were happening and save it.
一旦他们看到他们旋转了13天， And once they saw them spinning for 13 days,
那么攻击就开始了。 then the attack occurred.
离心机将以难以置信的速度旋转， Centrifuges spin at incredible speeds,
约1000赫兹。 about 1,000 hertz.
兰纳：他们有一个安全的运行速度， Langner: They have a safe operating speed,
每分钟63000转。 63,000 revolutions per minute.
简： Stuxnet蠕虫病毒，引起了浓缩铀离心机 Chien: Stuxnet caused the uranium enrichment centrifuges
旋转起来到1400赫兹的频率。 to spin up to 1,400 hertz.
兰纳：每多达80,000转分钟 Langner: Up to 80,000 revolutions per minute.
那些离心机会发生什么情况呢？ What would happen was those centrifuges
经历所谓的谐振频率。 would go through what's called a resonance frequency.
在此频率下，在该金属会 It would go through a frequency at which the metal would
基本上无法控制地震动 basically vibrate uncontrollably
基本上就裂成碎片。 and essentially shatter.
含铀气体四处弥漫。 There'd be uranium gas everywhere.
然后他们试图第二次攻击 And then the second attack they attempted
就是，他们试图把它降低到两个赫兹。 was they actually tried to lower it to two hertz.
他们使离心机放缓至几乎停滞。 They were slowed down to almost standstill.
简：两个赫兹，有点相反的效果会发生 Chien: And at two hertz, sort of an opposite effect occurs.
你可以想像一个玩具陀螺，你让它旋转 You can imagine a toy top that you spin
当顶部开始减慢时，它开始摆动。 and as the top begins to slow down, it begins to wobble.
这些离心机就会这样 That's what would happen to these centrifuges.
他们会开始摇晃，基本上粉碎 They'd begin to wobble and essentially shatter
和土崩瓦解。 and fall apart.
不是发送回电脑 And instead of sending back to the computer
真正发生了什么的事情，它会发送回 what was really happening, it would send back
它以前记录的旧数据。 that old data that it had recorded.
所以计算机的坐在那里思考， So the computer's sitting there thinking,
“是的，在1000赫兹运行时，一切都很好 "yep, running at 1,000 hertz, everything is fine.
运行在1000赫兹，一切都很好。” Running at 1,000 hertz, everything is fine."
但这些离心机却飞似地在旋转 But those centrifuges are potentially spinning up wildly,
就会产生巨大的噪音。 a huge noise would occur.
它会像，你知道，一个喷气发动机。 It'd be like, you know, a jet engine.
于是，操作人员才会知道，“哇”的一声， So the operators then would know, "whoa,
出什么事了？” something is going wrong here."
他们可能看他们的显示器，说：“嗯， They might look at their monitors and say, "hmm,
它说，这是1000赫兹，”但他们听说，在房间里 it says it's 1,000 hertz," but they would hear that in the room
严重的事情已经发生了 something gravely bad was happening.
不仅是操作员误以为 Not only are the operators fooled into thinking
一切正常， everything's normal,
而且任何一种自动保护逻辑 but also any kind of automated protective logic
被忽悠了。 is fooled.
简：你不能只是把这些离心机关掉了事 Chien: You can't just turn these centrifuges off.
他们必须以一个非常可控的方式停车。 They have to be brought down in a very controlled manner.
所以他们按紧急停车按钮，准确说就是那个大红色按钮 And so they would hit, literally, the big red button
启动正常关机， to initiate a graceful shutdown,
和拦截Stuxnet病毒代码。 and stuxnet intercepts that code.
所以，你会看到这些操作员 So you would have these operators
一遍又一遍地拚命猛按那个按钮， slamming on that button over and over again
根本不会起作用。. and nothing would happen.
Yadlin：如果你的网络武器是不够好， Yadlin: If your cyber weapon is good enough,
如果你的敌人是没有意识到这一点， if your enemy is not aware of it,
即,它是一种理想的武器，因为敌人 it is an ideal weapon, because the enemy
甚至不明白发生了什么吧。 even don't understand what is happening to it.
吉布尼：那甚至更好，如果敌人开始怀疑， Gibney: Maybe even better if the enemy begins to doubt
自己的能力。 - 当然。 - their own capability. - Absolutely.
于是，我们必须总结一下 Certainly one must conclude
在纳坦兹到底发生了什么 that what happened at natanz
必定让工程师们抓狂， must have driven the engineers crazy,
因为可能发生的最糟糕的事情是 because the worst thing that can happen
来维护的工程师不能够弄清楚 to a maintenance engineer is not being able to figure out
具体故障的原因是什么。 what the cause of specific trouble is.
所以，他们必定一直至死都在分析个没完 So they must have been analyzing themselves to death.
海诺宁：你知道吗，你看到的离心机被炸毁 Heinonen: You know, you see centrifuges blowing up.
你看电脑屏幕，他们运行的速度正常。 You look the computer screens, they go with the proper speed.
气体压力正常。一切看上去很完美。 There's a proper gas pressure. Everything looks beautiful.
桑格：至2009年，它运行得相当顺利 Sanger: Through 2009 it was going pretty smoothly.
离心机被炸毁。 Centrifuges were blowing up.
国际原子能机构核查人员 The international atomic energy agency inspectors
会去到纳坦兹，他们会看到 would go in to natanz and they would see that
离心机部分已被移除。 whole sections of the centrifuges had been removed.
美国从它的情报渠道得知 The United States knew from its intelligence channels
一些伊朗科学家和工程师 that some iranian scientists and engineers
被解雇了，原因是离心机被炸毁 were being fired because the centrifuges were blowing up
伊朗人认为，这是因为 and the iranians had assumed that this was because
他们一直在犯错误或制造错误。 they had been making errors or manufacturing mistakes.
显然，这又是某人的错。 Clearly this was somebody's fault.
于是节目就按 So the program was doing
按计划进行， exactly what it was supposed to be doing,
这是它被炸毁离心机 which was it was blowing up centrifuges
它是不留痕迹的 and it was leaving no trace
让伊朗人知道 and leaving the iranians to wonder
他们得到了应有的打击。 what they got hit by.
这是奥运会上的辉煌。 This was the brilliance of olympic games.
要知道，作为前董事 You know, as a former director of a couple of big
3个字母的机构， 3-letter agencies,
在纳坦兹放缓了1000个离心机... slowing down 1,000 centrifuges in natanz...
异常的好。 Abnormally good.
有必要对...为...购买时间。 There was a need for... for... For buying time.
有必要让进程减缓下来。 There was a need for slowing them down.
有必要设法推动他们 There was the need to try to push them
来到谈判桌。 to the negotiating table.
我的意思是，这里还有很多变数在玩。 I mean, there are a lot of variables at play here.
桑格：美国总统奥巴马会下降到房间里的情况， Sanger: President Obama would go down into the situation room,
和他会在他面前奠定了 and he would have laid out in front of him
他们所谓的马毯， what they called the horse blanket,
这是一个巨大的原理图 which was a giant schematic
纳坦兹铀浓缩计划。 of the natanz nuclear enrichment plan.
和奥运会上的设计师 And the designers of olympic games
形容他是什么样的，他们所取得的进展 would describe to him what kind of progress they made
和找他要授权 and look for him for the authorization
提前移动到下一次攻击。 to move on ahead to the next attack.
并在这些讨论在一个点上， And at one point during those discussions,
他对他的一些助手说， he said to a number of his aides,
“你知道，我有一些顾虑 "you know, I have some concerns
因为一旦这个词失控” because once word of this gets out,"
最后他知道这会全身而退， and eventually he knew it would get out,
“中国可以将其作为一个借口 "the Chinese may use it as an excuse
他们对我们说，攻击来自俄国，说不定其他人。” for their attacks on us. The Russians might or others."
于是，他显然还有些疑虑， So he clearly had some misgivings,
但他们没有大到足以阻止他 but they weren't big enough to stop him
在该程序运行之前阻止它。 from going ahead with the program.
然后在2010年， And then in 2010,
决定改变代码。 a decision was made to change the code.
我们的人力资产 Our human assets
并不总是能到纳坦兹里进行代码更新 weren't always able to get code updates into natanz
我们也不知确切原因， and we weren't told exactly why,
但我们被告知，我们必须有一个网络解决方案 but we were told we had to have a cyber solution
用于递送的代码。 for delivering the code.
但传递系统非常棘手。 But the delivery systems were tricky.
如果他们没有足够的侵略性，他们不会实现递送代码。 If they weren't aggressive enough, they wouldn't get in.
如果他们过于激进，他们可能蔓延 If they were too aggressive, they could spread
和被发现。 and be discovered.
简：当我们拿到第一个样品， Chien: When we got the first sample,
有它内部的一些配置信息。 there was some configuration information inside of it.
其中一个作品，版本号1.1 And one of the pieces in there was a version number, 1.1
那让我们意识到， and that made us realize,
好了，你看，这可能不是唯一的副本。 well, look, this likely isn't the only copy.
我们回到通过我们的数据库中寻找 We went back through our databases looking for
任何看起来类似Stuxnet的。 anything that looks similar to stuxnet.
简：当我们开始收集更多样本， Chien: As we began to collect more samples,
我们发现有一些早期版本的Stuxnet病毒。. we found a few earlier versions of stuxnet.
O'murchu：当我们分析了代码， O'murchu: And when we analyzed that code,
我们看到以前的版本到1.1版本 we saw that versions previous to 1.1
是少了很多攻击性。. were a lot less aggressive.
Stuxnet蠕虫的早期版本， The earlier version of stuxnet,
它基本上需要人做一点点 it basically required humans to do a little bit
双击以便它传播出去 of double clicking in order for it to spread
从一台计算机到另一台。 from one computer to another.
因此，看那个代码之后，我们认为 And, so, what we believe after looking at that code
是两件事情， is two things,
其一，他们要么没有进入纳坦兹系统 one, either they didn't get in to natanz
指的是早期版本， with that earlier version,
因为它入侵性不够， because it simply wasn't aggressive enough,
无法跳过空气间隙， wasn't able to jump over that air gap,
和/或两个，即有效载荷以及 and/or two, that payload as well
没有正常工作，没有让他们满意地工作， didn't work properly, didn't work to their satisfaction,
也许是不够的爆发力。 maybe was not explosive enough.
有略有不同的版本 There were slightly different versions
这是针对不同零件 which were aimed at different parts
离心机级联。 of the centrifuge cascade.
吉布尼：但在赛门铁克的家伙想你改变了代码 Gibney: But the guys at symantec figured you changed the code
因为第一变化进不去 because the first variations couldn't get in
和没有工作的权利。 and didn't work right.
废话。
Bullshit.
我们总是发现了一种穿过气隙来获得。 We always found a way to get across the air gap.
在涛，我们都笑了，当人们以为他们是 At tao, we laughed when people thought they were
由气隙保护。 protected by an air gap.
而对于OG，有效载荷的早期版本中那样工作。 And for og, the early versions of the payload did work.
但NSA确实... But what NSA did...
总是低调而含蓄。 Was always low-key and subtle.
问题是8200，以色列人 The problem was that unit 8200, the Israelis,
不断推动我们更加积极行动。 kept pushing us to be more aggressive.
简：更新版本Stuxnet 1.1 Chien: The later version of stuxnet 1.1,
该版本有多种传播的、方式。 that version had multiple ways of spreading.
例如，它里面有四个零天， Had the four zero days inside of it, for example,
允许其自身传播 that allowed it to spread all by itself
你不用做任何事情。 without you doing anything.
它可以通过网络共享传播。 It could spread via network shares.
也可以通过USB密匙传播。 It could spread via USB keys.
还能够通过网络漏洞进行传播。 It was able to spread via network exploits.
这就是介绍给我们的样品 That's the sample that introduced us
被盗的数字证书。 to stolen digital certificates.
是这个样品，突然间， That is the sample that, all of a sudden,
带来如此嘈杂声 became so noisy
一把抓住了防病毒专家的注意。 and caught the attention of the antivirus guys.
在第一个例子中，我们没有发现这一点。 In the first sample we don't find that.
这是很奇怪的，因为它告诉我们 And this is very strange, because it tells us that
在其开发过程中 in the process of this development
袭击者较少关注 the attackers were less concerned
操作的安全性。 with operational security.
简：Stuxnet实际上在自身内部保留了日志 Chien: Stuxnet actually kept a log inside of itself
日志记录了所有它沿途感染的机器 of all the machines that it infected along the way
当它从一台机器跳到另一台机器时 as it jumped from one machine to another
从另一个到另一个。 to another to another.
，我们能够收集到 And we were able to gather up
所有我们能够获得样品， all the samples that we could acquire,
样本数万。我们提取出所有的日志。. tens of thousands of samples. We extracted all of those logs.
O'murchu：我们可以看到Stuxnet确切的路径 O'murchu: We could see the exact path that stuxnet took.
简：最后，我们能够追溯到 Chien: Eventually, we were able to trace back
这个版本的Stuxnet零号版本， this version of stuxnet to ground zero,
在世界前五种易感染病毒。 to the first five infections in the world.
前五个感染都在纳坦兹工厂外， The first five infections are all outside a natanz plant,
伊朗内部的组织里面所有， all inside of organizations inside of Iran,
所涉及的组织机构 all organizations that are involved in
工业控制系统和建筑里的 industrial control systems and construction
工业控制设备， of industrial control facilities,
显然，工作在纳坦兹设工厂施里的承包商。 clearly contractors who were working on the natanz facility.
和攻击者知道这一点。 And the attackers knew that.
他们是电器公司。他们管道公司。 They were electrical companies. They were piping companies.
他们，要知道，这类公司。 They were, you know, these sorts of companies.
他们知道。他们知道这些技术 And they knew... They knew the technicians
通过这些公司，访问纳坦兹。 from those companies would visit natanz.
所以他们会感染这些公司 So they would infect these companies
然后技术人员会通过自己的电脑 and then technicians would take their computer
或他们的笔记本电脑或他们的USB... or their laptop or their USB...
操作者到达纳坦兹 That operator then goes down to natanz
他将里面有一些代码的U盘插入电脑时， and he plugs in his USB key, which has some code
，他需要更新到纳坦兹中去 that he needs to update into natanz,
进入纳坦兹网络 into the natanz network,
现在Stuxnet病毒能够进去纳坦兹 and now stuxnet is able to get inside natanz
并进行它的攻击。 and conduct its attack.
这五家公司是专门针对 These five companies were specifically targeted
使Stuxnet病毒蔓延到纳坦兹 to spread stuxnet into natanz
它不是...让Stuxnet的逃出纳坦兹 and that it wasn't that... that stuxnet escaped out of natanz
再传到世界各地 and then spread all over the world
这是这个大错误，“噢，这并不意味着 and it was this big mistake and "oh, it wasn't meant
流传如此广，但它真的做到了。” to spread that far but it really did."
不，这不是我们所看到的方式。 No, that's not the way we see it.
我们看到它的方式是，他们希望它越传越远 The way we see it is that they wanted it to spread far
使他们能进入纳坦兹。 so that they could get it into natanz.
有人决定，我们要创造新的东西， Someone decided that we're gonna create something new,
演变而来的东西， something evolved,
是要去很远很远地地方，更具侵略性。 that's gonna be far, far, far more aggressive.
我们都还好，坦率地说， And we're okay, frankly,
与它遍布全世界无辜的机器 with it spreading all over the world to innocent machines
为了我们的目标，前进 in order to go after our target.
摩萨德有作用，有...分配 The Mossad had the role, had the... the assignment
递送病毒以确保Stuxnet病毒 to deliver the virus to make sure that stuxnet
将影响到位于纳坦兹的离心机。 would be put in place in natanz to affect the centrifuges.
梅尔·达甘，摩萨德的负责人， Meir dagan, the head of Mossad,
获得来来自总理越来越大的压力 was under growing pressure from the prime minister,
内塔尼亚胡，产生结果。 Benjamin netanyahu, to produce results.
在ROC（接收者操作特征曲线）里面， Inside the roc,
我们非常愤怒。 we were furious.
以色列人把我们的代码输植入到系统 The Israelis took our code for the delivery system
并作些改变。 and changed it.
然后，没有我们的同意下，在自己的，， Then, on their own, without our agreement,
他们就他妈的启动了它。 they just fucking launched it.
大约在2010同一时间 2010 around the same time
他们开始杀害伊朗科学家... they started killing iranian scientists...
他们搞砸了代码！ And they fucked up the code!
不是隐藏， Instead of hiding,
这些代码开始关闭电脑， the code started shutting down computers,
所以自然而然，人们注意到了。 so naturally, people noticed.
因为他们在赶时间，他们打开了潘多拉的盒子。 Because they were in a hurry, they opened pandora's box.
他们让它出来了 They let it out
它弥漫全球。 and it spread all over the world.
吉布尼：该蠕虫病毒迅速蔓延 Gibney: The worm spread quickly
但不知何故，仍然看不见它 but somehow it remained unseen
直到它在白俄罗斯被确定。 until it was identified in Belarus.
不久后，以色列情报证实 Soon after, Israeli intelligence confirmed
它以它的方式入手 that it had made its way into the hands
俄罗斯联邦安全局， of the Russian federal security service,
继承了克格勃。 a successor to the kgb.
所以它以常规模式出现，针对一个网络秘密武器 So it happened that the formula for a secret cyber weapon
由美国和以色列设计 designed by the U.S. and Israel
落入俄罗斯之手 fell into the hands of Russia
和为了进攻的国家，。. and the very country it was meant to attack.
Kiyaei：在国际法中， Kiyaei: In international law,
当一些国家或国家联盟 when some country or a coalition of countries
针对核设施，这是战争行为。 targets a nuclear facility, it's a act of war.
在这里，请让我们坦率地说 Please, let's be frank here.
如果不是伊朗， If it wasn't Iran,
让我们说，在美国的核设施... let's say a nuclear facility in United States...
以相同的方式被对待... Was targeted in the same way...
美国政府 The American government
不会坐视这种行为。 would not sit by and let this go.
吉布尼：Stuxnet的是在和平时期的攻击，攻击的是 Gibney: Stuxnet is an attack in peacetime
关键基础设施。 on critical infrastructures.
是的，是的。我...看看，当我读到它， Yes, it is. I'm... Look, when I read about it,
我读到它时，我走了，“哇，这是一个大问题。” I read it, I go, "whoa, this is a big deal."
呀。 Yeah.
桑格：谁是运行这个程序的人， Sanger: The people who were running this program,
包括帕内塔， including Leon panetta,
中情局当时的主任， the director of the CIA at the time,
只好到地下战情研究室 had to go down into the situation room
面对奥巴马总统， and face president Obama,
副总统拜登解释这个程序 vice president biden and explain that this program
突然就散了。 was suddenly on the loose.
副总统拜登 Vice president biden,
在讨论中一个讨论点， at one point during this discussion,
一种拜登似的爆炸 sort of exploded in biden-esque fashion
并指责以色列人。 and blamed the Israelis.
他说，“这一定是以色列人 He said, "it must have been the Israelis
改变了代码 who made a change in the code
使其能够出去。“ that enabled it to get out."
理查德·克拉克：奥巴马总统对高级领导说， Richard Clarke: President Obama said to the senior leadership,
”你告诉我，它会不会走出网络。它走出了。 "you told me it wouldn't get out of the network. It did.
你告诉我，伊朗将永远不会搞清楚 You told me the iranians would never figure out
这是美国。他们做到了。 it was the United States. They did.
你告诉我，它会有着巨大的影响 You told me it would have a huge affect
对他们的核计划，并没有“ on their nuclear program, and it didn't."
桑格：纳坦兹工厂每隔几周会被 Sanger: The natanz plant is inspected every couple of weeks
由国际原子能机构核查人员审查 by the international atomic energy agency inspectors.
和如果你排着队，想知道攻击是什么 And if you line up what you know about the attacks
审查报告，你就可以看到效果了。 with the inspection reports, you can see the effects.
海诺宁：如果你去国际原子能机构报告， Heinonen: If you go to the IAEA reports,
他们真的表明，所有这些离心机 they really show that all of those centrifuges
被关闭,被移走。 were switched off and they were removed.
多达近几千的妥协。 As much as almost couple of thousand got compromised.
当你把这些放在一起， When you put this altogether,
如果他们的项目被推延我也不会感到惊讶 I wouldn't be surprised if their program got delayed
推迟一年。 by the one year.
后来一年，即2012-13年 But go then to year 2012-13
并期待离心机怎么又开始冒出来。. and looking how the centrifuges started to come up again.
Kiyaei：伊朗的离心机数量 Kiyaei: Iran's number of centrifuges
呈指数级上升， went up exponentially,
达20,000台离心机，进行低浓缩铀的储备。 to 20,000, with a stockpile of low enriched uranium.
这不是...这些都是大的数目。 This isn't... These are high numbers.
伊朗展开核设施 Iran's nuclear facilities expanded
同时进行福尔道的建设 with the construction of fordow
等高度受保护的设施。 and other highly protected facilities.
所以讽刺的是，网络战... So ironically, cyber warfare...
其核科学家遇刺， Assassination of its nuclear scientists,
经济制裁，政治孤立... economic sanctions, political isolation...
伊朗经历了从“a”到“X” Iran has gone through "a" to "x"
政策的每一个合唱，包括与美国，以色列， of every chorus of policy that the U.S., Israel,
以及他们的盟友，这些国家针对伊朗的政策， and those who ally with them have placed on Iran,
他们曾作过伊朗核计划 and they have actually made Iran's nuclear program
今天，比它之前有史以来更先进。 more advanced today than it was ever before.
摩萨德：这是一个非常 Mossad operative: This is a very
我们行走在非常危险的雷区， very dangerous minefield that we are walking,
那些国家决定 and nations who decide
采取这些秘密行动 to take these covert actions
应该考虑 should be taking into consideration
所有这些后果，包括道德的影响。 all the effects, including the moral effects.
我会说，这是应付出的价码 I would say that this is the price
我们要支付这些...在这场战争中， that we have to pay in this... In this war,
还有我们正义的刀刃 and our blade of righteousness
不应该如此犀利。 shouldn't be so sharp.
吉布尼：在以色列和美国， Gibney: In Israel and in the United States,
义刀片割掉左右逢源， the blade of righteousness cut both ways,
伤人目标和攻击者。 wounding the targets and the attackers.
当Stuxnet蠕虫感染的电脑的美国， When stuxnet infected American computers,
国土安全部， the department of homeland security,
不知道由NSA的网络武器推出， unaware of the cyber weapons launch by the NSA,
投入了大量的资源，要保护美国人 devoted enormous resources trying to protect Americans
从他们自己的政府。 from their own government.
我们已经遇到了敌人，这是我们的。 We had met the enemy and it was us.
硒醤保罗mcgurk：，手表站的目的 Se醤 Paul mcgurk: The purpose of the watch stations that
你在你面前看到的是汇总数据 you see in front of you is to aggregate the data
从多个提要进来 - coming in from multiple feeds
什么样的网络威胁可能是 of what the cyber threats could be,
所以如果我们看到威胁 so if we see threats
我们可以提供实时的建议 we can provide real-time recommendations
为私人公司，以及联邦机构。 for both private companies, as well as federal agencies.
男记者： Male journalist:
是的，绝对。我们会很乐意讨论。 Yep, absolutely. We'd be more than happy to discuss that.
女记者：硒醤，是... Female journalist: Se醤, is it...
Mcgurk： 2010年，我们接到一个电话，7月初 Mcgurk: Early July of 2010 we received a call
是说，这件作品的恶意软件被发现 that said that this piece of malware was discovered
，可能我们就来了解一下吧。 and could we take a look at it.
当我们刚开始分析， When we first started the analysis,
有说：“哦，废话”的时刻，你知道， there was that "oh, crap" moment, you know,
我们坐在那里，说，这是后话 where we sat there and said, this is something
即显著。 that's significant.
这是影响工业控制领域。 It's impacting industrial control.
它可以将其破坏到它可能造成伤害的地步 It can disrupt it to the point where it could cause harm
不仅设备损坏， and not only damage to the equipment,
但潜在伤害或生命损失。 but potentially harm or loss of life.
我们非常担心，因为Stuxnet蠕虫 We were very concerned because stuxnet
是东西，我们从来没有见过的。 was something that we had not seen before.
所以不是很多睡眠的夜晚。 So there wasn't a lot of sleep that night.
基本上，点亮了电话，叫大家我们知道， Basically, light up the phones, call everybody we know,
通知联合国秘书长，告知白宫 inform the secretary, inform the white house,
通知其他部门和机构 inform the other departments and agencies,
唤醒世界，弄清楚到底是怎么回事 wake up the world, and figure out what's going on
这个特定的恶意软件。 with this particular malware.
早上好，董事长利伯曼， Good morning, chairman lieberman,
高级成员柯林斯。 ranking member Collins.
一些简单而无害的，因为这 Something as simple and innocuous as this
成为我们大家保持一个挑战 becomes a challenge for all of us to maintain
我们的关键基础设施系统的问责控制。 accountability control of our critical infrastructure systems.
这实际上包含了Stuxnet病毒。 This actually contains the stuxnet virus.
我已经被问过多次， I've been asked on a number of occasions,
“你有没有想过，这是我们？” "did you ever think this was us?"
而在...那个曾经真正跨越我们的头脑的想法，没有意义， And at... at no point did that ever really cross our mind,
因为我们从的角度来看看着它 because we were looking at it from the standpoint of,
是这个东西是祖国到来后？ is this something that's coming after the homeland?
你知道，到底什么...是潜在影响， You know, what... what's going to potentially impact,
你要知道，在美国，我们的工业控制设在这里？ you know, our industrial control based here in the United States?
你知道，我把它比作，你知道的战场。 You know, I liken it to, you know, field of battle.
你别以为狙击手是在你身后 You don't think the sniper that's behind you
准备向你射击， is gonna be shooting at you,
因为，你指望他站在你身边。 'cause you expect him to be on your side.
我们真的不知道攻击者是谁 We really don't know who the attacker was
在Stuxnet的情况下。 in the stuxnet case.
所以帮助我们理解多一点 So help us understand a little more
这个东西是什么 what this thing is
其来源和目的地我们也不了解。 whose origin and destination we don't understand.
吉布尼：有没有人给过你任何迹象 Gibney: Did anybody ever give you any indication
这是他们已经知道的东西吗？ that it was something that they already knew about?
不，我没有从别人那得到的印象 No, at no time did I get the impression from someone
那就是好了，你知道，在头上轻拍一下， that that's okay, you know, get the little pat on the head,
...然后匆匆出了门。 and... and scooted out the door.
我从来没有收到一个停工的指令。 I never received a stand-down order.
我从来...从来没有人问他：“别老盯着这一点。” I never... no one ever asked, "stop looking at this."
难道我们认为这是一个国家在演戏？ Do we think that this was a nation-state actor
少数几个国家 and that there are a limited number of nation-states
有这样先进的能力呢？ that have such advanced capacity?
吉布尼：东南醤mcgurk，网络主任 Gibney: Se醤 mcgurk, the director of cyber
为国土安全部工作， for the department of homeland security,
他是如何想到在参议院作证 testified before the senate about how he thought
Stuxnet是对美国的一个可怕的威胁。 stuxnet was a terrifying threat to the United States.
那是不是有问题？ Is that not a problem?
我不...然后...然后怎...怎么你的意思是？ I don't... and... and how... How do you mean?
Stuxnet蠕虫是一个坏主意？ That stuxnet was a bad idea?
吉布尼：不，不，不，只是之前他知道这是什么 Gibney: No, no, no, just that before he knew what it was
以及它的攻击...- 哦，我...我知道了。 - and what it attacks... - Oh, I... I get it.
吉布尼：是啊 - 是啊， - Gibney: Yeah... - Yeah,
他是在回应的东西，我们... he was responding to something that we...
吉布尼：他认为这是一种威胁 Gibney: He thought it was a threat
针对美国关键的基础设施。 to critical infrastructure in the United States.
呀。该蠕虫病毒被释放了！ Yeah. The worm is loose!
吉布尼：蠕虫被释放了。我明白。 Gibney: The worm is loose. I understand.
但有...有进一步的理论 But there's... There's a further theory
和做与不做相关， having to do with whether or not,
大卫桑格随后... following upon David sanger...
我得到了一点情节，谁做的？ I got the subplot, and who did that?
是不是以色列人？而且，是的，我... Was it the Israelis? And, yeah, I...
我真的不知道，即使我不知道， I truly don't know, and even though I don't know,
我现在还不能谈论它，好吗？ I still can't talk about it, all right?
Stuxnet是谁的秘密行动，好吗？ Stuxnet was somebody's covert action, all right?
定义为隐蔽的行动 And the definition of covert action
是你想在其中插手的活动 is an activity in which you want to have the hand
永远隐藏的演员。 of the actor forever hidden.
所以顾名思义，它会在此结束 So by definition, it's gonna end up in this
“我们不谈论这些事情”。 "we don't talk about these things" box.
桑格：直至今天，美国政府 Sanger: To this day, the United States government
从来没有承认过 has never acknowledged
在世界任何地方，进行过任何网络攻击。 conducting any offensive cyber attack anywhere in the world.
但由于斯诺登先生，我们知道，在2012年 But thanks to Mr. snowden, we know that in 2012
奥巴马总统发布命令 president Obama issued an executive order
奠定了一些条件 that laid out some of the conditions
以下条件下可使用网络武器。 under which cyber weapons can be used.
有趣的是，每次使用网络武器 And interestingly, every use of a cyber weapon
都需要总统签字。 requires presidential sign-off.
即只有在真实的物理世界里 That is only true in the physical world
核武器。 for nuclear weapons.
克拉克：核战争和核武器有很大的不同 Clarke: Nuclear war and nuclear weapons are vastly different
从网络战和网络武器。 from cyber war and cyber weapons.
话虽如此，有一些相似之处。 Having said that, there are some similarities.
60年代初， And in the early 1960s,
美国政府突然意识到 the United States government suddenly realized
它有成千上万的核武器， it had thousands of nuclear weapons,
大的和小的， big ones and little ones,
吉普车载武器，潜艇里的武器， weapons on jeeps, weapons on submarines,
它真的没有相同的模式。 and it really didn't have a doctrine.
这真的没有一个策略。 It really didn't have a strategy.
这真的没有一个认识 It really didn't have an understanding
他将如何利用政策层面 at the policy level about how he was going to use
所有这些事情。 all of these things.
于是，学术界 And so academics
开始出版机密文件 started publishing unclassified documents
核战争和核武器。 about nuclear war and nuclear weapons.
桑格：结果是 Sanger: And the result was
在美国，超过20年 more than 20 years, in the United States,
非常激烈的全国性辩论 of very vigorous national debates
就是，关于我们想要如何去使用核武器。 about how we want to go use nuclear weapons.
不但没有引起国会 And not only did that cause the congress
和人民在华盛顿行政部门 and people in the executive branch in Washington
去想这些事情， to think about these things,
却引起了俄罗斯人去想这些事情。 it caused the Russians to think about these things.
基于核增长理论 And out of that grew nuclear doctrine,
一定会互相毁灭， mutual assured destruction,
所有这些，使核动力学更复杂。 all of that complicated set of nuclear dynamics.
今天，至少，在这一重要问题上， Today, on this vital issue at least,
我们已经看到可以取得什么成就 we have seen what can be accomplished
当我们齐心协力。 when we pull together.
现在,我们不能用一个敏感的方式进行那个讨论 We can't have that discussion in a sensible way right now
关于网络战争和网络武器 about cyber war and cyber weapons
因为一切都是秘密。 because everything is secret.
当你进入一个讨论 And when you get into a discussion
与现在仍在政府任职的人进行讨论 with people in the government, people still in the government,
此人已获得安全许可， people who have security clearances,
你撞上了南墙。 you run into a brick wall.
试图阻止伊朗 Trying to stop Iran
是真的...我的头号工作，我觉得... is really the... my number one job, and I think...
主持人：我问你，在这种情况下， Host: And let me ask you, in that context,
有关Stuxnet的计算机病毒潜在... about the stuxnet computer virus potentially...
你可以问，但我不会发表评论。 You can ask, but I won't comment.
主持人：你能告诉我们什么？ Host: Can you tell us anything?
不 No.
你认为已经具备了最具影响力 What do you think has had the most impact
关于其核决策， on their nuclear decision-making,
Stuxnet病毒？ the stuxnet virus?
我不能谈论Stuxnet蠕虫。 I can't talk about stuxnet.
我甚至不能谈论伊朗离心机的操作。 I can't even talk about the operation of Iran centrifuges.
美国有任何方式的卷入吗？ Was the U.S. involved in any way
在Stuxnet病毒的开发方面？ in the development of stuxnet?
很难进行任何种类的评论 It's hard to get into any kind of comment on that
直到我们已经完成了所有...我们的检查。 till we've finished any... Our examination.
可是，先生，我不是问你 But, sir, I'm not asking you
如果你认为另外其他国家参与了， if you think another country was involved.
我问你，如果美国被卷入。 I'm asking you if the U.S. was involved.
而且我们...这是不是 And we're... This is not something
我们是要能够在此点来回答。 that we're gonna be able to answer at this point.
看，时间最长的，我是在担心 Look, for the longest time, i was in fear that
我真不该说出了那句话 I couldn't actually say the phrase
“计算机网络攻击”。 "computer network attack."
这东西是高度绝密的， This stuff is hideously overclassified,
它进入的方式... and it gets into the way of a...
一个成熟的公开讨论 Of a mature public discussion
至于这是我们作为一个民主国家为什么 as to what it is we as a democracy
希望我们的民族在网络领域在这里做了。 want our nation to be doing up here in the cyber domain.
现在，这是国家安全局和中央情报局的前主任 Now, this is a former director of NSA and CIA
说这玩意超级机密的。 saying this stuff is overclassified.
这是高度机密的原因之一，就是 One of the reasons this is highly classified as it is
这是一个奇特的武器系统。 this is a peculiar weapons system.
这是刚出来的武器系统，来自于 This is a weapons system that's come out of
间谍界 the espionage community,
和...等等这些人有保密的习惯。 and... and so those people have a habit of secrecy.
保密仍然是在某些情况下是合理的 Secrecy is still justifiable in certain cases
保护资源或保护国家安全 to protect sources or to protect national security
但是，当我们处理保密，不要隐藏背后 but when we deal with secrecy, don't hide behind it
用无法正常透露的事件为借口， to use as an excuse to not disclose something properly
你知道应该 that you know should be
还是美国人民 or that the American people
需要最终看到的。 need ultimately to see.
吉布尼：虽然大多数政府官员拒绝 Gibney: While most government officials refused
承认操纵这件事， to acknowledge the operation,
至少一个关键内幕做了事件的部分泄漏 at least one key insider did leak parts of the story
给了新闻界。 to the press.
2012年，大卫·桑格写了一个详细的介绍 In 2012, David sanger wrote a detailed account
奥运会时，广泛的联合行动东窗事发 of olympic games that unmasked the extensive joint operation
美国和以色列之间 between the U.S. and Israel
发动对纳坦兹网络攻击。 to launch cyber attacks on natanz.
桑格：这个故事的出版 Sanger: The publication of this story
同时横空出世，有未来 coming at a time that turned out that there were
其他一些无关国家安全的故事 a number of other unrelated national security stories
的问世，导致公告 being published, lead to the announcement
由总检察长调查。 of investigations by the Attorney General.
吉布尼：在...到记者，进入泄漏？ Gibney: In... into the press and into the leaks?
进入新闻界，进入泄漏。 Into the press and into the leaks.
吉布尼：的文章后不久， Gibney: Soon after the article,
奥巴马政府的目标 the Obama administration targeted
一般詹姆斯卡特赖特在刑事调查 general James Cartwright in a criminal investigation
涉嫌泄露 for allegedly leaking
分类关于Stuxnet病毒的详细信息。 classified details about stuxnet.
记者：有网络攻击报告 Journalist: There are reports of cyber attacks
您所订购伊朗核计划。 on the iranian nuclear program that you ordered.
什么是你对这些信息的反应失控？ What's your reaction to this information getting out?
好吧，首先，我不是要去征求意见... Well, first of all, I'm not gonna comment on the...
的细节...什么... The details of... what are...
原本应该归类的物品。 Supposed to be classified items.
因为我一直在办公室里，我的态度一直 Since I've been in office, my attitude has been
零容忍这类泄漏。 zero tolerance for these kinds of leaks.
我们已经建立了相关机制 We have mechanisms in place
在哪里，如果我们能铲除谁泄露了乡亲， where, if we can root out folks who have leaked,
他们将遭受的后果。 they will suffer consequences.
它成为一个显著问题 It became a significant issue
和一个非常广泛的调查 and a very wide-ranging investigation
在我认为谁最被清除的人 in which I think most of the people who were cleared
在某些时候奥运会 for olympic games at some point
过，你知道，采访等等。 had been, you know, interviewed and so forth.
当Stuxnet蠕虫打媒体， When stuxnet hit the media,
他们在我们的办公室polygraphed大家， they polygraphed everyone in our office,
包括人谁不知道狗屎。 including people who didn't know shit.
你知道，他们polyed实习生，在上帝的份。 You know, they polyed the interns, for god's sake.
这些都是犯罪行为 These are criminal acts
当他们发布的信息是这样， when they release information like this,
我们将深入调查 and we will conduct thorough investigations
像我们过去。 as we have in the past.
吉布尼：政府从来提出指控， Gibney: The administration never filed charges,
可能怕起诉 possibly afraid that a prosecution
将揭示Stuxnet病毒分类的详细信息。 would reveal classified details about stuxnet.
为了这一天，没有人在美国或以色列政府 To this day, no one in the U.S. or Israeli governments
已正式承认存在 has officially acknowledged the existence
联合操作的。 of the joint operation.
我绝不会妥协 I would never compromise
在该领域持续操作， ongoing operations in the field,
但我们应该能够谈论的能力。 but we should be able to talk about capability.
我们可以谈论我们的... We can talk about our...
地堡炸弹，为什么不是我们的网络武器？ Bunker busters, why not our cyber weapons?
我的意思是，保密 I mean, the secrecy
已被吹爆了。 of the operation has been blown.
我们在以色列的朋友拿了武器 Our friends in Israel took a weapon
我们共同开发， that we jointly developed,
部分，以保持以色列做一些疯狂的， in part to keep Israel from doing something crazy,
然后在一个方式使用它自己 and then used it on their own in a way
自爆操作的封面 that blew the cover of the operation
并可能导致战争。 and could have led to war.
我们不能谈呢？. And we can't talk about that?
MOWATT - 拉森：有谈论Stuxnet的办法 Mowatt-larssen: There's a way to talk about stuxnet.
以前有过。 It happened.
那...否认它的发生是...是愚蠢的。 That... to deny that it happened is... is foolish.
所以，它发生了的事实 So the fact it happened
真的是什么，我们这里所说的。 is really what we're talking about here.
什么...有什么影响 What does... What are the implications
的事实是，我们现在正处于一个后Stuxnet的世界呢？ of the fact that we now are in a post-stuxnet world?
我对大卫桑格说的是， What I said to David sanger was,
“我明白毁灭差异是很明显， "i understand the difference in destruction is dramatic,
但这是1945年8月的味儿” but this has the whiff of August 1945."
有人只是用一个新的武器， Somebody just used a new weapon,
和这种武器不会被放回盒子。 and this weapon will not be put back into the box.
我...我不知道操作细节 I... I know no operational details
不知道别人怎么做了或没做 and don't know what anyone did or didn't do
前，有人决定使用的武器，所有的权利。 before someone decided to use the weapon, all right.
我知道这一点。 I do know this.
如果我们走出去，做一些事情， If we go out and do something,
世界上大多数其他地区现在认为 most of the rest of the world now thinks
这是新标准 that's the new standard
它是什么，他们觉得现在合法地位做的一样好。 and it's something that they now feel legitimated to do as well.
但交战规则， But the rules of engagement,
国际规范，条约标准， international norms, treaty standards,
他们现在不存在了。 they don't exist right now.
布朗：战争的法律，因为它很久之前就开始发展了 Brown: The law of war, because it began to develop so long ago
真的是依赖于对事物的思维动力学 is really dependent on thinking of things kinetically
和物理领域。 and the physical realm.
因此，例如，我们认为，在攻击方面。 So for example, we think in terms of attacks.
在活跃的世界中产生效果后，你才知道一个攻击开始了。 You know an attack when it happens in the kinetic world.
这不是真的太大的一个谜。 It's not really much of a mystery.
但在网络空间，是一种思考混乱， But in cyberspace it is sort of confusing to think,
我们必须走多远 how far do we have to go
在被认为是攻击之前？ before something is considered an attack?
因此，我们必须用所有的词汇 So we have to take all the vocabulary
以及我们在战略里使用的各种条款 and the terms that we use in strategy
和军事行动 and military operations
进入网络领域并适应。 and adapt them into the cyber realm.
桑格：有关核，我们有这些 Sanger: For nuclear we have these
广泛的检查制度。 extensive inspection regimes.
俄国人来看看我们的贮仓。 The Russians come and look at our silos.
我们去看看他们的贮仓。 We go and look at their silos.
两国得到了糟糕的事情， Bad as things get between the two countries,
这些检查制度已经提出了。 those inspection regimes have held up.
我们对...对于网络 But working that our for... For cyber
几乎是不可能。 would be virtually impossible.
你在哪里发送您的检查？ Where do you send your inspector?
在笔记本电脑里面，你知道... Inside the laptop of, you know...
在美国和俄罗斯有多少笔记本电脑？ How many laptops are there in the United States and Russia?
在网络领域将是很难的 It's much more difficult in the cyber area
构建国际制度 to construct an international regime
基于条约的承诺和前行的规则 based on treaty commitments and rules of the road
等等。 and so forth.
虽然，我们一直试图同中国讨论 Although, we've tried to have discussions with the Chinese
和俄罗斯讨论，并向前行， and Russians and so forth about that,
但它是非常困难的。 but it's very difficult.
布朗：眼下，在网络空间的标准是 Brown: Right now, the norm in cyberspace is
做想尽一切办法逃脱。 do whatever you can get away with.
这不是一个很好的规范，但它是我们的常态。 That's not a good norm, but it's the norm that we have.
那就是各国家优选的规范 That's the norm that's preferred by states
就是参与许多不同类型的活动 that are engaging in lots of different kinds of activities
他们觉得受益于国家安全。. that they feel are benefitting their national security.
Yadlin：那些在网络里练成的 Yadlin: Those who excel in cyber
试图减缓进程 are trying to slow down the process
即带来监管的进程。 of creating regulation.
我们这些受害者们，希望监管 Those who are victims we like the regulation
在公开场合...尽快。 to be in the open as... As soon as possible.
布朗：在这方面的国际法是定制编写的， Brown: International law in this area is written by custom,
定制的法规某个国家的说法， and customary law requires a nation to say,
这就是我们所做的，这就是为什么我们做到了。 this is what we did and this is why we did it.
美国不希望推动法规朝此方向前行 And the U.S. doesn't want to push the law in that direction
所以它选择不披露其参与。 and so it chooses not to disclose its involvement.
我认为这是重要的原因之一 And one of the reasons that I thought it was important
来讲述“奥运”故事 to tell the story of olympic games
不只是因为它是一个很酷的间谍故事， was not simply because it's a cool spy story,
它，但它是因为作为一个国家... it is, but it's because as a nation...
我们需要有一个关于我们如何要使用网络武器的辩论 We need to have a debate about how we want to use cyber weapons
因为我们是世界上最脆弱的国家 because we are the most vulnerable nation on earth
到网络攻击自己。 to cyber-attack ourselves.
Mcgurk：如果你早晨起来并关闭报警 Mcgurk: If you get up in the morning and turn off your alarm
煮咖啡和用泵打气和使用ATM机， and make coffee and pump gas and use the atm,
你已经触及工业控制系统。 you've touched industrial control systems.
对我们的生活产生威力。 It's what powers our lives.
不幸的是，这些系统被连接在一起 And unfortunately, these systems are connected
他们这种互连在某种程度，使他们很脆弱。 and interconnected in some ways that make them vulnerable.
关键基础设施系统一般建于 Critical infrastructure systems generally were built
多年以前，没有考虑安全 years and years and years ago without security in mind
他们没有意识到事情会发生改变， and they didn't realize how things were gonna change,
也许他们甚至不意味着被连接到互联网。 maybe they weren't even meant to be connected to the Internet.
我们已经看到，通过大量的实验 And we've seen, through a lot of experimentation
同时，不幸的是，遭受到很多的攻击 and through also, unfortunately, a lot of attacks
大多数这些系统都比较容易让 that most of these systems are relatively easy
一个高级黑客进入。 for a sophisticated hacker to get into.
比方说，你接手控制系统 Let's say you took over the control system
一条铁路。你可以切换轨道。 of a railway. You could switch tracks.
你可能会导致列车出轨 You could cause derailments of trains
携带爆炸材料。 carrying explosive materials.
如果你控制了天然气管道的控制系统，会发生什么 What if you were in the control system of gas pipelines
当阀门应该是开的， and when a valve was supposed to be open,
它却被关闭，并且压力上升起来了 it was closed and the pressure built up
管道爆炸？ and the pipeline exploded?
有运行发电厂的公司 There are companies that run electric power generation
或电力分配 or electric power distribution
我们知道已被黑客入侵 that we know have been hacked
由有能力的外国实体支配 by foreign entities that have the ability
关闭电网。 to shut down the power grid.
桑格：想象一下 Sanger: Imagine for a moment
不仅东海岸所有的电力被停掉， that not only all the power went off on the east coast,
但从整个互联网下来。 but the entire Internet came down.
想象的，经济的影响是什么 Imagine what the economic impact of that is
即使它只持续了24个小时。 even if it only lasted for 24 hours.
新闻阅读器：据官员， Newsreader: According to the officials,
伊朗是第一个在中东国家 Iran is the first country ever in the middle east
实际上被卷入到网络战争 to actually be engaged in a cyber war
与美国和以色列。 with the United States and Israel.
如果有什么事情，他们表示，近期网络攻击 If anything they said the recent cyber attacks
是什么促使他们计划成立 were what encouraged them to plan to set up
网络的军队，将聚集计算机科学家， the cyber army, which will gather computer scientists,
程序员，软件工程师的... programmers, software engineers...
Kiyaei：如果你是一个年轻人，你看到暗杀 Kiyaei: If you are a youth and you see assassination
核科学家， of a nuclear scientist,
您的核设施正在遭受攻击， your nuclear facilities are getting attacked,
你会不会加入你的国家网络军队？ wouldn't you join your national cyber army?
好了，很多这样做了。 Well, many did.
这就是为什么今天，伊朗拥有最大的一个... And that's why today, Iran has one of the largest...
世界网络军队。 Cyber armies in the world.
所以谁发起这个 So whoever initiated this
一看就知道，自己沾一点就感觉到很自豪 and was very proud of themselves to see that little dip
现在，应该回头看看，在伊朗的离心机数量 in Iran's centrifuge numbers, should look back now
并承认这是一个重大失误。 and acknowledge that it was a major mistake.
很快，伊朗传话 Very quickly, Iran sent a message
给美国，非常复杂的信息， to the United States, very sophisticated message,
他们这样做，就用了两个攻击。 and they did that with two attacks.
首先，他们袭击了沙特阿美（沙特阿拉伯国家石油公司） First, they attacked Saudi aramco,
全球最大的石油公司 the biggest oil company in the world,
和扫除每一个软件， and wiped out every piece of software,
30,000台计算机设备上的，每行代码。 every line of code, on 30,000 computer devices.
然后伊朗对美国银行进行了激增式攻击。 Then Iran did a surge attack on the American banks.
目前为止，对美国银行的最广泛的攻击 The most extensive attack on American banks ever
从中东推出，现在发生的事情。 launched from the middle east, happening right now.
新闻阅读：数以百万计的客户 Newsreader: Millions of customers
尝试其目标之一，网上银行，但本周受阻，， trying to bank online this week blocked, among the targets,
美国，PNC和富国银行。 bank of America, pnc, and Wells Fargo.
美国怀疑伊朗黑客可能参与。. The U.S. suspects hackers in Iran may be involved.
NSA来源：当伊朗袭击我们的银行， NSA source: When Iran hit our banks,
我们可以关闭他们的僵尸网络， we could have shut down their botnet,
但国务院太紧张了， but the state department got nervous,
因为服务器实际上并不在伊朗。 because the servers weren't actually in Iran.
所以，直到有一个外交解决方案， So until there was a diplomatic solution,
奥巴马让私营部门处理这个问题。 Obama let the private sector deal with the problem.
我想，在白宫战情分析室 I imagine that in the white house situation room
人们坐在一起，说... people sat around and said...
我要说明，我无法想象，我知道。 Let me be clear, i don't imagine, I know.
人们在白宫战情室围坐 People sat around in the white house situation room
说：“伊朗已经为我们送来消息 and said, "the iranians have sent us a message
基本上是，”停止攻击网络 which is essentially, 'stop attacking us in cyberspace
在纳坦兹,你的做法与Stuxnet病毒相似 the way you did at natanz with stuxnet.
我们可以做到这一点。'“ We can do it, too.'"
梅尔曼：有意想不到的后果 Melman: There are unintended consequences
对Stuxnet蠕虫攻击。 of the stuxnet attack.
你想引起混乱和对以方的损害， You wanted to cause confusion and damage to the other side,
但随后对方可以以牙还牙。 but then the other side can do the same to you.
怪兽转调头，攻击它的创造者， The monster turned against its creators,
现在每个人都在这场比赛中。 and now everyone is in this game.
他们向世界展示的工作做得很好， They did a good job in showing the world,
包括坏人，你需要做什么 including the bad guys, what you would need to do
为了造成严重的麻烦 in order to cause serious trouble
可能导致受伤和死亡。 that could lead to injuries and death.
不可避免的是，越来越多的国家将收罗 It's inevitable that more countries will acquire
能熟练使用网络能人， the capacity to use cyber,
既为间谍和破坏活动。 both for espionage and for destructive activities.
我们在最近的一些冲突中看到了这一点 And we've seen this in some of the recent conflicts
2007年，俄罗斯参与 that Russia's been involved in.
如果是战争，有人会被淘汰 If there's a war, then somebody will try to knock out
我们的通信系统或雷达。. our communication system or the radar.
Mcgurk：国家支持的网络睡眠细胞， Mcgurk: State-sponsored cyber sleeper cells,
今天，他们在那里随处可见。 they're out there everywhere today.
这可能是用于通信目的。 It could be for communications purposes.
这可能是数据泄露。 It could be for data exfiltration.
这可能是，你知道，在未来的Stuxnet中，有牧羊人。 It could be to, you know, Shepherd in the next stuxnet.
我的意思是，你一直关注Stuxnet蠕虫， I mean, you've been focusing on stuxnet,
但是这只是一小部分 but that was just a small part
比多伊朗的使命大得多。 of a much larger iranian mission.
吉布尼：有一个更大的伊朗使命 Gibney: There was a larger iranian mission?
耐曲宙斯.兰兹。 Nitro Zeus. Nz.
我们花了数以百万计，它也许数十亿美元。 We spent hundreds of millions, maybe billions on it.
事件中，以色列人确实攻打了伊朗， In the event the Israelis did attack Iran,
我们假定，我们将被卷入冲突。 we assumed we would be drawn into the conflict.
我们针对伊朗的指挥和控制系统嵌入攻击程序 We built in attacks on Iran's command-and-control system
让伊朗人无法在战斗中相互通信。 so the iranians couldn't talk to each other in a fight.
我们渗透的防空系统，军事防空系统 We infiltrated their iads(Integrated Air Defense System), military air defense systems,
所以如果我们飞过他们，却无法击落我们的飞机。 so they couldn't shoot down our planes if we flew over.
我们也去他们的平民支持系统后， We also went after their civilian support systems,
电网，交通， power grids, transportation,
通信，金融系统。 communications, financial systems.
我们在里面等待，观望， We were inside waiting, watching,
准备破坏，降低，并销毁这些系统 ready to disrupt, degrade, and destroy those systems
与网络攻击。 with cyber-attacks.
通过比较，. And in comparison,
Stuxnet是幕后操作。 stuxnet was a back alley operation.
兰兹是一个全面的网络战争计划 Nz was the plan for a full-scale cyber war
没有归属。 with no attribution.
现在的问题是，是，什么样的世界 The question is, is that the kind of world
我们要生活在？ we want to live in?
如果我们不这样做，作为公民，我们怎么去的过程 And if we don't, as citizens, how do we go about a process
在这里我们有一个更理智的讨论？ where we have a more sane discussion?
我们需要思考的一种全新的方式 We need an entirely new way of thinking about
我们如何会解决这个问题。 how we're gonna solve this problem.
你是不是会得到一种全新的方式 You're not going to get an entirely new way
解决这个问题的 of solving this problem
直到你开始有一个公开承认 until you begin to have an open acknowledgement
我们也有网络武器， that we have cyber weapons as well,
而且我们可能不得不同意其使用一些限制 and that we may have to agree to some limits on their use
如果我们要其他国家限制其使用。 if we're going to get other nations to limit their use.
它是不是会是一个单行道。 It's not gonna be a one-way street.
我太老，不能在核军事控制工作了 I'm old enough to have worked on nuclear arms control
指生物武器控制 and biological weapons arms control
和化学武器军事控制。 and chemical weapons arms control.
我在每一个这些类型的武器控制，被告知 And I was told in each of those types of arms control,
当我们开始， when we were beginning,
“这太困难，都有这些问题。 "it's too hard. There are all these problems.
有技术的，有工程的 It's technical. There's engineering.
科学相关 There's science involved.
有实际困难的验证 There are real verification difficulties.
你将永远不会到达那里。” You'll never get there."
好了，花了20年，某些情况下30年， Well, it took 20, 30 years in some cases,
但我们有一个生物武器条约 but we have a biological weapons treaty
那是相当好。 that's pretty damn good.
我们有化学武器条约 We have a chemical weapons treaty
那是相当好。 that's pretty damn good.
我们有三四个核武器条约。 We've got three or four nuclear weapons treaties.
是的，它可能很难， Yes, it may be hard,
它可能需要20年或30年， and it may take 20 or 30 years,
但除非你认真对待它，它永远不会发生， but it'll never happen unless you get serious about it,
除非你启动它，它永远不会发生。 and it'll never happen unless you start it.
今天，经过两年的谈判， Today, after two years of negotiations,
美国，与我们的国际合作伙伴一起， the United States, together with our international partners,
已实现的东西，几十年的仇恨也没有， has achieved something that decades of animosity has not,
全面，长期合同 a comprehensive, long-term deal
与伊朗，这将阻止它获得核武器。 with Iran that will prevent it from obtaining a nuclear weapon.
到达瑞士的洛桑 It was reached in lausanne, Switzerland,
伊朗，美国，英国，法国， by Iran, the U.S., britain, France,
德国，俄罗斯和中国。 Germany, Russia, and China.
在伊朗将达成一项协议，这是 It is a deal in which Iran will cut
其已安装三分之二以上的离心机。 its installed centrifuges by more than two thirds.
伊朗不会凭借其先进的离心机进行铀浓缩 Iran will not enrich uranium with its advanced centrifuges
至少在未来十年。 for at least the next ten years.
它将使我们的国家，我们的盟友， It will make our country, our allies,
和我们的世界变得更加安全。 and our world safer.
内塔尼亚胡：6百万犹太人被谋杀后第70年 Netanyahu: Seventy years after the murder of 6 million Jews
伊朗的统治者承诺摧毁我的国家， Iran's rulers promised to destroy my country,
从几乎每一个政府的响应 and the response from nearly every one of the governments
在这里得到了彻底的沉默。 represented here has been utter silence.
死寂一样的沉默。 Deafening silence.
也许你现在明白 Perhaps you can now understand
以色列为什么不加盟你，庆祝这笔交易。 why Israel is not joining you in celebrating this deal.
历史表明，美国必须领导， History shows that America must lead,
不只是我们的力量，但我们的原则。 not just with our might, but with our principles.
它显示了更强，而不是当我们单独在一起， It shows were are stronger, not when we are alone,
但是当我们把全世界联系在一起。 but when we bring the world together.
今天的声明标志着进入另外一个章节 Today's announcement marks one more chapter
这个追求更安全，更乐于助人， in this pursuit of a safer and more helpful,
更有希望的世界。谢谢。 more hopeful world. Thank you.
愿上帝保佑你们，愿上帝保佑美利坚合众国。 God bless you, and god bless the United States of America.
NSA来源：我认识的人基本上是 NSA source: Everyone I know is basically
与伊朗的交易激动不已。 thrilled with the Iran deal.
制裁和外交工作。 Sanctions and diplomacy worked.
但是交易背后是一个很大的信心 But behind that deal was a lot of confidence
对于我们的网络能力。 in our cyber capability.
在伊朗境内我们到处都在。现在仍然如此。 We were everywhere inside Iran. Still are.
我不会告诉你的操作细节 I'm not gonna tell you the operational details
什么，我们可以做向前或其中... of what we can do going forward or where...
但科幻网络战争的场景是在这里。 But the science fiction cyber war scenario is here.
这是耐曲宙斯。 That's nitro Zeus.
但我的关怀和我说的原因... But my concern and the reason I'm talking...
是因为当你关闭一个国家的电网... Is because when you shut down a country's power grid...
它不只是流行回来了，你知道吗？ It doesn't just pop back up, you know?
它更像是积重难返，四分五裂... It's more like humpty-dumpty...
如果王的男人不能把灯再次点亮 And if all the king's men can't turn the lights back on
或数周才去过滤水 or filter the water for weeks,
然后很多人死亡。 then lots of people die.
我们可以对他人做点什么， And something we can do to others,
他们也可以对我们做些事。 they can do to us too.
那是什么，我们应该保持安静？ Is that something that we should keep quiet?
还是应该谈谈吗？ Or should we talk about it?
吉布尼：我去会了这部电影中的很多人， Gibney: I've gone to many people in this film,
甚至我的朋友，谁也不会跟我说话 even friends of mine, who won't talk to me
有关NSA或Stuxnet蠕虫甚至关闭记录 about the NSA or stuxnet even off the record
因为怕坐牢。 for fear of going to jail.
那是恐惧保护我们？ Is that fear protecting us?
没有，但它保护了我。 No, but it protects me.
或者我应该说我们？ Or should I say we?
我是一个演员，扮演一个角色 I'm an actor playing a role
从少数人的书面证词 written from the testimony of a small number of people
从国家安全局和中央情报局， from NSA and CIA,
所有的人都愤怒，却保着密 all of whom are angry about the secrecy
但不敢挺身而出。 but too scared to come forward.
现在，我们前进了。 Now, we're forward.
好吧，向前进。 Well, forward-leaning.
softgain 根据英文字幕翻译制作， 2016年10月3日于杭州